Yonah

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perplex
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Yonah

Post by perplex » Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:46 am

TDP 16W !

http://www.x86-secret.com/?option=newsd&nid=884

makes me think twice about wanting to buy a Sempron 3300+ 90nm and undervolt :/

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Re: Yonah

Post by derekva » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:46 pm

perplex wrote:TDP 16W !

http://www.x86-secret.com/?option=newsd&nid=884

makes me think twice about wanting to buy a Sempron 3300+ 90nm and undervolt :/
The Sempron 3300+ (E-stepping) still kicks ass. I just rebuilt my Media Center 2005 system with a Sempron 3300+ and I'm *extremely* happy with the results. Now I want one for my desktop. :(

-Derek

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Re: Yonah

Post by Mats » Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:59 pm

perplex wrote:TDP 16W !
That's the low voltage version, the standard version got 31 W TDP.
Nothing special about that, this low voltage 1.4 GHz CPU have a 10 W TDP for instance.
TDP is not the only thing that matters, if at all (for consumers).
How easy it will be to keep cool in real world is the only thing that matters. Yonah is made with 65 nm process and no one of us knows what that means. TDP have gone from 27 W to 31 W, the core have become smaller, thus making it a "more efficient heater". But on the other hand it got two cores. Very hard to tell what all that means. I really don't think it will be difficult to keep cool though.

Remember when AMD's 90 nm CPU's showed up. They used roughly half the power, which easily could be measured. But the temp drop wasn't that huge because the core surface was smaller, making more heat/area.

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Re: Yonah

Post by derekva » Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:54 pm

perplex wrote:TDP 16W !
Also keep in mind that Intel measures TDP at idle, while AMD measures TDP at peak...

-Derek

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Post by halcyon » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:00 am

16W is nothing to sneeze at, even though we don't know the surface area yet.

That's remarkable for a 1.6GHz dual core, imo.

BTW, I don't think Intel measures TDP at idle, although the figure does not approximate anywhere near worst case real world load (which AMD more closely approaches with their own figures).

http://www.silentpcreview.com/Sections+ ... d-169.html

I wonder if there'll be ULV versions for Yonah at all?

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Re: Yonah

Post by aaronspink » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:00 am

derekva wrote:
perplex wrote:TDP 16W !
Also keep in mind that Intel measures TDP at idle, while AMD measures TDP at peak...

-Derek
Your information is incorrect.

Aaron Spink
speaking for myself inc.

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Post by Mats » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:43 pm


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Post by frostedflakes » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:53 pm

Intel's desktop TDP figures are somewhat misleading, but as far as I can tell, their mobile TDP numbers are measured similar to how AMD measures TDP (i.e. "worse case scenario," for Dothan it is Tmax for the die, which is 100*C I believe).

But Yonah does look sexy. Is it 2x2MB, or is it a single 2MB cache shared between both cores?

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Post by smilingcrow » Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:02 am

I’ve read a lot of sites for information on Intel’s plans for next year as they sound worth following. I couldn’t find any figures for the TDP of Merom though; did anybody find any numbers for these parts and I don’t mean the low voltage parts?

65W for Conroe as a desktop part sounds good enough to the point that Merom may become irrelevant. I wonder how much of a difference there will be between Merom and Conroe? Conroe should be released at higher frequencies no doubt, but are there any indications of other architectural changes a la Turion v Athlon 64?

If Conroe can reach 2.5 – 3 GHz @ 65W then I think it’s possible that an undervolted 2 GHz part should be in the 35W region. Not bad for a high IPC dual core 2 GHz chip. Welcome back to the desktop Intel. It’s been a long time. :)

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:44 pm

is someone actually comparing a yonah to a sempron???

lol

nice. :) thats like comparing a unicycle to a corvette.

first off, you could if were around, buy at least 4 semprons for the price of a yonah.

yonah doesnt even exist yet.

yonah can handle high end gaming systems.
---------

Merom is 65 nm right? well that doesnt exist at all. not even to check out somewhere as a tech geek. AMD doesnt have a 65nm either, I suspect by the time 65 nm is standard the whole chip thing will be a new world.

We have no idea what socket M does at all for users yet and that is comming out "soon" they say. I cant imagine speculating on dual core dothan styled chips and what they will have and how they will run.

also, 64 bits and dothan styled chips wont be combined for a LONG time. why? who knows. supposedly from an Inquirer article and tomshardware that intel doesnt see the mobile chip needing 64 bits for a while. i have no idea what that means or who is smoking what but that's what i read.

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20 ... 43758.html

so its wicked dumb that is has no 64 bit on it.

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Post by smilingcrow » Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:38 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote: Merom is 65 nm right? well that doesnt exist at all. not even to check out somewhere as a tech geek. …

also, 64 bits and dothan styled chips wont be combined for a LONG time. why? who knows
Intel has been showing working silicon of a dual core Merom running Windows XP 64 bit edition at their conference earlier this week; due for release 2006H2. Hence this thread, it’s not just idle speculation.

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/sho ... i=2503&p=2

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:09 pm

do you know that merom is 3 steps away from Yonah. Yonah isnt even out yet, 6 more months minimum, merom will be out in 1 1/2 years!!!!!!!!!!

64 bit will be old hat by 2 years from now ( 1 1/2 years is earliest for merom)

this marketing chart shows a year or less for merom. riiiiight. inquirer has it in deep 07.

for now all you get is badly welded together dothans.

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Post by cotdt » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:51 pm

yeah Yonah is an in-between-release CPU. It will be very good CPU but will be replaced very quickly. But merom to me seems like just a yonah with on-chip memory controller. they say it's a new design but it seems just like the old pentium m design to me. it doesn't seem all that interesting. intel says it will deliver 30% more performance/watt as compared to yonah but no one can trust intel's words since they ranked the prescott higher than the northwood on performance/watt.

i say screw merom and just get yonah when it comes out. btw, the 21W TDP Dothan uses 10-15W less power as compared to the 25W TDP Turions, and the Dothan is faster, too. I actually think Intel is the more conservative one with their TDP ratings, as obviously the Dothan uses less than 21W in Prime95. the difference is that Dothan can be passively cooled with a Hyper6, whereas a Turion cannot unless undervolted.

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Post by smilingcrow » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:51 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote: 64 bit will be old hat by 2 years from now
I can’t see 64 bit being of much use to many people until after Vista has been out for about 6 months or so and native applications released; so that’s about 2 years then. The hat should be wearing in nicely by then :)

Well AMD have dual core Turion’s out next year. They may well offer some technical advantages over Yonah in the dual core area, but from a power consumption perspective Intel seem to have the lead.

Interestingly, AMD have countered Intel’s new emphasis on power consumption by pointing out that the TDP figures for their chips aren’t directly comparable to Intel’s because of the on die memory controller. They are claiming that when you look at power consumption at the platform level, AMD are more competitive than Intel. I can’t find the link but they were claiming that having the memory controller on the CPU die means that the chipset saves 15-20W in power consumption. Seems a large figure to me but I wouldn’t know how realistic that is. Not something that I’d considered before though.

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Re: Yonah

Post by rpsgc » Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:25 am

derekva wrote:Also keep in mind that Intel measures TDP at idle, while AMD measures TDP at peak...

-Derek
Intel's TDP is an average. AMD's TDP is the maximum. On average the real power consumption for AMD is usually half of that of the TDP AFAIK.

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:20 am

no use for 64 bit till 2 years from now?
I do doubt that. Yonah is quite a lame device that is designed to give users a few months of something nicer but screw them in the end.

my 754 clawhammer system will run win64 and linux64 but the new latest and greatest intel chip comming out next year won't. that's just sad.

I think merom is the only real chip and that wont be for quite some time.

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Post by rpsgc » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:30 am

We all know we can't trust Intel's numbers :wink: or their "we will kick AMD's arse! har har har" posture hehe :lol: As if AMD is just gonna rest on their laurels and do nothing.

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Re: Yonah

Post by Shining Arcanine » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:29 am

perplex wrote:TDP 16W !

http://www.x86-secret.com/?option=newsd&nid=884

makes me think twice about wanting to buy a Sempron 3300+ 90nm and undervolt :/
The Inquirer said that it would have a 40 Watt TDP. I guess they'll have to eat their words.
derekva wrote:
perplex wrote:TDP 16W !
Also keep in mind that Intel measures TDP at idle, while AMD measures TDP at peak...

-Derek
If they were measuring it at idle, Yonah would have a >1 Watt TDP.
frostedflakes wrote:Intel's desktop TDP figures are somewhat misleading, but as far as I can tell, their mobile TDP numbers are measured similar to how AMD measures TDP (i.e. "worse case scenario," for Dothan it is Tmax for the die, which is 100*C I believe).

But Yonah does look sexy. Is it 2x2MB, or is it a single 2MB cache shared between both cores?
I read that it will have a single 2MB shared L2 cache.
~El~Jefe~ wrote:is someone actually comparing a yonah to a sempron???

lol

nice. :) thats like comparing a unicycle to a corvette.

first off, you could if were around, buy at least 4 semprons for the price of a yonah.

yonah doesnt even exist yet.

yonah can handle high end gaming systems.
---------

Merom is 65 nm right? well that doesnt exist at all. not even to check out somewhere as a tech geek. AMD doesnt have a 65nm either, I suspect by the time 65 nm is standard the whole chip thing will be a new world.

We have no idea what socket M does at all for users yet and that is comming out "soon" they say. I cant imagine speculating on dual core dothan styled chips and what they will have and how they will run.

also, 64 bits and dothan styled chips wont be combined for a LONG time. why? who knows. supposedly from an Inquirer article and tomshardware that intel doesnt see the mobile chip needing 64 bits for a while. i have no idea what that means or who is smoking what but that's what i read.

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20 ... 43758.html

so its wicked dumb that is has no 64 bit on it.
1. Some of us plan to have children, so we can't have furnaces on our laps.

2. 65nm does exist. If it didn't, Intel wouldn't have 65nm silicon on display

3. The new architecture that Merom is based on is 64bit.
~El~Jefe~ wrote:do you know that merom is 3 steps away from Yonah. Yonah isnt even out yet, 6 more months minimum, merom will be out in 1 1/2 years!!!!!!!!!!

64 bit will be old hat by 2 years from now ( 1 1/2 years is earliest for merom)

this marketing chart shows a year or less for merom. riiiiight. inquirer has it in deep 07.

for now all you get is badly welded together dothans.
The Inquirer posts whatever they hear. Not all of that stuff is accurate. Anyway, how will 64bit be old? 32bit is over a decade old. I see no reason why 64bit won't last at least as long as that.
cotdt wrote:yeah Yonah is an in-between-release CPU. It will be very good CPU but will be replaced very quickly. But merom to me seems like just a yonah with on-chip memory controller. they say it's a new design but it seems just like the old pentium m design to me. it doesn't seem all that interesting. intel says it will deliver 30% more performance/watt as compared to yonah but no one can trust intel's words since they ranked the prescott higher than the northwood on performance/watt.

i say screw merom and just get yonah when it comes out. btw, the 21W TDP Dothan uses 10-15W less power as compared to the 25W TDP Turions, and the Dothan is faster, too. I actually think Intel is the more conservative one with their TDP ratings, as obviously the Dothan uses less than 21W in Prime95. the difference is that Dothan can be passively cooled with a Hyper6, whereas a Turion cannot unless undervolted.
Intel is saying that Merom's architecture will be four issue wide architecture, which should have 30% more performance per a watt. That is assuming that their engineering is in charge of design instead of their marketing department.

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Re: Yonah

Post by perplex » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:18 am

Shining Arcanine wrote: 1. Some of us plan to have children, so we can't have furnaces on our laps.
LOL thats my style :lol: 8)

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:43 am

yonah single core should be good enough for a laptop.

if it isnt, you are on a desktop. i cant see the real need for anything above 1.5 ghz dothan for laptop computing for those people who most often buy them for business purposes.

i have a p1 133 compaq (when it was actually old school good quality).

It does anything I need when i am on the road. i have a toshiba p III 700mhz with 256 megs of ram that does just about the same thing as the p1 does for me but the screen is that faded greyish cheap tone to it, so i actually bring out the p1 more often!!

I was actually excited to hear about yonah, but now it is USELESS to me as it wont run linux 64 bit :(

tragic. i would have flipped out of the amd camp in a flash if it could do it.
such a minor improvement it needs to do it...

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Post by mathias » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:14 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:I was actually excited to hear about yonah, but now it is USELESS to me as it wont run linux 64 bit :(
Heh heh, intel wants you to buy an itanium for that.

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:34 pm

lol yes.

it was like Pentium Pro. locked into one thing. did it great but sucked for anything else.

my old dream machine was a dual or quad pentium pro machine hooked up to a T1. :D

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Post by smilingcrow » Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:47 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:64 bit will be old hat by 2 years from now
Looked at purely from the hardware side, it’s still going to be relatively new. No manufacturer even currently has a line-up of CPUs that are all 64 bit compliant. Add in all the legacy 32 bit systems and in 2 years time only a minority of systems will be 64 bit ready.

On the software front, Microsoft only shifted their OS range to fully 32 bit in 2001 with XP. That’s only 4 years ago, even though the x-86 architecture has supported it for far too long for me to care to remember :)
Vista is going to have to come in two flavours, as I can’t see MS doing an Apple (No disrespect intended) and forcing people to buy a new machine so that they can upgrade the OS. So there are going to be a lot of 32 bit people out there for a long time.
That’s why I suggested that 64 bit isn’t going to take off significantly on the software side for about 2 years. Linux is another story, but it’s still a small niche at the desktop level.
There are I suspect an awful lot of people who will get more from the shift to dual core than the shift to 64 bit. Put the two together and it seems that we are in for a healthy boost to practical system performance. I for one don’t miss the cock size wars, aah, I mean the clock speed wars :shock:

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:03 pm

linux is a small niche at the desktop level... hm... ok if you say so. small for 400 dolllar after rebates that never come from Circuit city home computer celerons with 3000 spywares loaded and 1/20th the ram they need, yes it will be hard on them.

anyone that puts together a new computer should want it to be able to be both dual core and handle 64 bit os's. i could see if it cost MORE but it wont it might cost LESS!!!

dual yonah if it's dirt cheap will be a nice idea for a while, but im doubting it will be as the dirt cheap low performance area is for pentium D at low megahertz.

cant see spending on 5 year old technology anymore.

My wonder is what will M2 be? that could be interesting. not pushed at all by amd yet, and i think because it is doign so well selling out the dual core 939.

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Post by smilingcrow » Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:18 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote: anyone that puts together a new computer should want it to be able to be both dual core and handle 64 bit os's

dual yonah if it's dirt cheap will be a nice idea for a while, but im doubting it will be as the dirt cheap low performance area is for pentium D at low megahertz.

My wonder is what will M2 be? that could be interesting. not pushed at all by amd yet, and i think because it is doign so well selling out the dual core 939.
One thing I like about Intel is that they are generally upfront about their future plans. That way you can’t blame Intel if you buy into a technology that is about to be imminently replaced or whose price is about to drop significantly. Most people are ignorant of such information and that is their responsibility. At the end of the day you buy when you want or need something and even if you are getting an interim product such as Yonah, you are usually better off than having purchased its predecessor.

I can see myself moving back to Intel in 12 months or so unless AMD pulls something big out of the hat. Intel’s recently announced products sound more than good enough for my needs, so even if AMD comes out with better products, in recent years their pricing policy has often been unattractive. So I’ll probably choose Intel on price.
That’s certainly not currently the case, as Pentium D is unattractive compared to X2 even given the price differential. Neither products are attractive to me though for varying reasons.

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Post by frostedflakes » Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:00 am

AMD has some pretty neat stuff on the horizon. DDR2, integrated PCI-E controller, etc. But because of the 65nm process, Intel will surely have the price advantage until AMD is able to make the transition to 65nm.

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Post by cotdt » Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:24 pm

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2366

This is a pretty good read about Yonah. So, my interest is in the low-voltage version of the Yonah. It's basically dual Dothan, but faster than two Dothans since they share 2MB of cache. They also expect the floating point performance to be vastly improved over the Dothan. So Yonah will be very, very good for gaming. Really looking forward to it in 2006. But it's just too bad that Yonahs will be 32-bit in all likelihood, in order to stay small and low-powered.

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:05 pm

that's a really old post.

I would reference this one, similar but at least more up to date:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/23 ... man_yonah/

yes, it might be the chip to own. quite true.

however, amd per level of chip goes faster right now than anything intel has for gaming purposes. yonah will have to be FASTER than 2mb cache 3.7 ghz pentium extreme edition (EE) in order to be faster for gaming than my socket 754 system. (yes, my 754 system if I use the lil too hot running 3700 chip in this does get more frames than a chip 600 dollars more in cost)

so, better for spcr, yes I would assume so. only if intel allows all the ultra low power adjustments to work in the desktop version.

gaming? eh. ill have to see this one to believe it. (and i dont mean OC'ing as a standard)
------------------
In the end of this 2006 season, i wonder if intel and amd will basically be the same chip with small variations. it looks like intel is trying to copy the trend that amd set as fast as possible.

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Post by cotdt » Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:22 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:that's a really old post.

I would reference this one, similar but at least more up to date:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/23 ... man_yonah/

yes, it might be the chip to own. quite true.

however, amd per level of chip goes faster right now than anything intel has for gaming purposes. yonah will have to be FASTER than 2mb cache 3.7 ghz pentium extreme edition (EE) in order to be faster for gaming than my socket 754 system. (yes, my 754 system if I use the lil too hot running 3700 chip in this does get more frames than a chip 600 dollars more in cost)

so, better for spcr, yes I would assume so. only if intel allows all the ultra low power adjustments to work in the desktop version.

gaming? eh. ill have to see this one to believe it. (and i dont mean OC'ing as a standard)
------------------
In the end of this 2006 season, i wonder if intel and amd will basically be the same chip with small variations. it looks like intel is trying to copy the trend that amd set as fast as possible.
Overclocked Dothans already outperform AthlonFX-57. For gaming, it's 10% faster than Athlon64 clock-by-clock.

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Post by rpsgc » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:57 am

cotdt wrote:Overclocked Dothans already outperform AthlonFX-57. For gaming, it's 10% faster than Athlon64 clock-by-clock.
And overclocked FX-57s outperform overclocked Dothans, so?

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