electrical Whine -- what to do?

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cloneman
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electrical Whine -- what to do?

Post by cloneman » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:09 pm

Electrical whine is easily my biggest problem right now. Not only is it impossible to get rid of without replacement, if its loud enough it's more than just disturbing, it slowly drives me insane (something a 45dbA fan would prolly not be able to do.

After dealing a with a bunch of things that whine, I'm starting to think the problem could be elsewhere. Can a bad AC source damage components and cause them to whine? I don't have problems with my house current, but I'm just curious to get some info about this.

It's also a difficult problem to deal with because it's kinda hard to get a company to RMA because "it makes a wierd noise if you listen closely".

I just bought a HP all-in-one printer that whines.... I doubt HP will give damn. It's a network printer so maybe I'll but that 25ft Network cable to good use. The worst part is it whines (albeit less) even when its off (and still plugged in) :roll:

:arrow: Anyway here is my main question - I'm trying to isolate sources of whine in my various errm, products that whine, this isn't as easy as it sounds. Should I invest in some sort of directional microphone or something that can pinpoint the coil or what not that is the culprit? I would attach it to some kind of thing to generate a sound wave (or even just have it on headphones to see where its loudest).

moving my head around in my system case is no longer something I want to do.

Any suggestions?

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:31 pm

if its coming from the case, its most likely coil whine...basically, it happens with age and current. don't bother with directional mics, the ones that would really get the job done will cost you the better part of $300, not to mention the cables to connect it to a computer or something to give you levels.

my computer used to have 11 fans in it, i've worked it down to 6 in a new case, maybe it'll get all the way down to 3 case fans [if i'm really good with it] but noise is a part of computers. eliminating 100% of it is rare. just do what i do, and always have music playing or the TV on, and that noise will fade into the depths of your mind and you wont realize it anymore.

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:54 pm

A small funnel and some clear plastic hose from the hardware store makes a cheap stethoscope for isolating a noise source.

Coil noises can be PSU or mobo, cheesy fans also whine. Teenagers whine a lot,can pose quite a challenge. 8)

cloneman
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Post by cloneman » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:56 pm

in reply to bonestonne:

I know it is coil whine but I'd like to know which ones are the culprit.

If we all had your mentality there would be no spcr.

cloneman
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Post by cloneman » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:58 pm

ronrem wrote:A small funnel and some clear plastic hose from the hardware store makes a cheap stethoscope for isolating a noise source.

Coil noises can be PSU or mobo, cheesy fans also whine. Teenagers whine a lot,can pose quite a challenge. 8)
Interesting.

phartknokr
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Post by phartknokr » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:47 pm

cloneman wrote:
ronrem wrote:A small funnel and some clear plastic hose from the hardware store makes a cheap stethoscope for isolating a noise source.

Coil noises can be PSU or mobo, cheesy fans also whine. Teenagers whine a lot,can pose quite a challenge. 8)
Interesting.
Which? That you can make a cheap stethoscope or that teenagers whine?

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:53 pm

its not that i don't respect having a silent PC, its that i realize the extent that a computer can be silenced. even if you could pin point coil whine, how do you propose preventing it? theres a limit...if i could silently cool my computer, i would, but with what i run, its just not possible. they don't make heat sinks that match my sockets or CPUs that would do it.

if it was possible to cool a dual Pentium II Xeon setup silently, i'd do it. i deal with the noise because its psychologically satisfying to me. i cant say its rare, but i don't know many people with some of the things i do..a silent room could easy make me go nuts.

cloneman
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Post by cloneman » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:37 pm

bonestonne wrote:its not that i don't respect having a silent PC, its that i realize the extent that a computer can be silenced. even if you could pin point coil whine, how do you propose preventing it? theres a limit...if i could silently cool my computer, i would, but with what i run, its just not possible. they don't make heat sinks that match my sockets or CPUs that would do it.

if it was possible to cool a dual Pentium II Xeon setup silently, i'd do it. i deal with the noise because its psychologically satisfying to me. i cant say its rare, but i don't know many people with some of the things i do..a silent room could easy make me go nuts.
You're obviously a rare exception to the rule of SPCR lurkers.

I would also probably go nuts in a silent room, but I much prefer sounds of other things in my home than the sound of a computer.

Your dual Xeon setup would be pretty hard to silence without severe DIY or maybe watercooling (and of course... oil) not to mention the issue of your probably old & loud hard drives. It probably can be done, but in your case its just too costly and it doesn't seem to bother you too much.

I'm in a situation right now where coil whine is irritating me perhaps twice as much as fan or hd noise.

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:13 pm

its not that i'm against silencing it, but i'd like to know how you'd silence this coil whine. if i didn't have a processor fan in this, it would be silent, but i need one, its just a stock cooler.

realistically. yes, its annoying i realize that, and i understand silencing, but theres also a limit.

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:15 pm

its not that i'm against silencing it, but i'd like to know how you'd silence this coil whine
Coil whine can sometimes be cured by applying hot glue or silicone to the offending coil.

cloneman
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Post by cloneman » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:30 pm

jaganath wrote:
its not that i'm against silencing it, but i'd like to know how you'd silence this coil whine
Coil whine can sometimes be cured by applying hot glue or silicone to the offending coil.
Wouldn't that cause the coil to overheat? or is it not heat sensitive?

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:48 pm

The coil has to dissipate a little heat, but you only have to put enough glue to stop the wire vibrating.

cloneman
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Post by cloneman » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:56 pm

jaganath wrote:The coil has to dissipate a little heat, but you only have to put enough glue to stop the wire vibrating.
"wire vibration?"

Gorsnak
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Post by Gorsnak » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:17 pm

cloneman wrote:
jaganath wrote:The coil has to dissipate a little heat, but you only have to put enough glue to stop the wire vibrating.
"wire vibration?"
Yes. Coil whine is caused by rapid vibration of the wires in the coil, which in turn is caused changes in the magnetic field around the coil due to the current passing through it (which is the whole point of having an inductive coil in the first place, so you're not getting rid of that). Preventing the wires in the coil from vibrating against each other will eliminate the whine and won't hurt the functionality of the coil at all. Quite the opposite, in fact - vibrating wires in the coil will decrease its efficiency, I believe.

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:22 pm

reading that sooner could have changed things.

i'll say thats something new for me, but with my rigs being as old as they are, i'm not going to push it...it'll be harder to replace them than deal with their noise.

that clears that up.

jfeldt
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Post by jfeldt » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:52 pm

One can also cut some heatshrink tubing over the coil and shrink it against the wires, which may or may not expose the actual coil to more heat if one is worried about that kind of thing.

Also bonestonne, I wouldn't consider dual Pentum II Xeons anything close to "one of the first dual processor systems." Those chips came out in 1998 there were dual processor x86 systems in the 80s and Crays and so on before that. My dual 486 system is from around 1990 and my Sun sparc 10 came out around 1993. By my estimates, your system is located about halfway between the first dual processor _common_PCs_ and now in time. Not to nitpick, but I thought it was funny that you were calling people out as being jealous. Don't get me wrong: the dual Pentium III coppermine setup I just got has been a dream that is finally fulfilled, and dual Pentium II Xeons would be sweet as well.

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:07 pm

its strictly poking fun, and i realize it wasn't the first, but its not in a long line either. hence one of...i see it as mainly a toy/learning experience for me...with it being as old as it is, there are limits. yes, theres older, but those can't really be used to a far extent.

Erssa
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Post by Erssa » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:10 pm

bonestonne wrote:even if you could pin point coil whine, how do you propose preventing it
I think it's always worth checking what's causing it. Just recently I was suffering from whine. It wasn't constant, but just appeared sometimes. I had lots of trouble locating the source. It turned out to be my cellphones recharger. All I needed to do, was to unplug it.

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:00 am

jfeldt wrote:One can also cut some heatshrink tubing over the coil and shrink it against the wires, which may or may not expose the actual coil to more heat if one is worried about that kind of thing.

Also bonestonne, I wouldn't consider dual Pentum II Xeons anything close to "one of the first dual processor systems." Those chips came out in 1998 there were dual processor x86 systems in the 80s and Crays and so on before that. My dual 486 system is from around 1990 and my Sun sparc 10 came out around 1993. By my estimates, your system is located about halfway between the first dual processor _common_PCs_ and now in time. Not to nitpick, but I thought it was funny that you were calling people out as being jealous. Don't get me wrong: the dual Pentium III coppermine setup I just got has been a dream that is finally fulfilled, and dual Pentium II Xeons would be sweet as well.
I finally parted with my 52 Chevy truck after 30 years,could not afford to keep it functional,and it's not exactly a plush ride...but I liked it's soul.
A nifty old Dual chip server rig would be neat to have around,sort of like a 1940 radio console...but it's not something I'd be inclined to USE all the time,unless it lived in the garage. Eleven fans...it ain't a puter,it's a hovercraft! :lol: :lol:

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