Hi guys. I'm looking to build a lowish power HTPC. I've built a few PCs before, including one low-noise one using advice from SPCR, but it's been a few years since I looked at PC components so I feel like a newbie all over again!
Usage
I call it an HTPC but it'll be pretty low-end. I want to be able to playback SDTV content only - MPEG2 from DVB-T and DVD and MPEG4 (Xvid-type, not H.264). I'm not looking at HDTV at all in the lifetime of this PC. The PC will have a couple of DVB-T 'tuners', but these just dump raw MPEG2 streams to HDD, so the CPU doesn't need to do any encoding. I'm hoping the video card will help with decoding of MPEG2, so the only thing that might tax the CPU is decoding of MPEG4. I'll be running Linux with MythTV.
I have a size constraint in my TV cabinet of 460mm wide, 125mm high and 300mm deep. I could possibly adjust the height of the shelves to get more height but I would rather not. I might be able to squeeze a couple more centimetres in the depth - there is further room behind that for dangling wires but the shelf itself runs out at 300mm. The width is completely fixed at 460mm maximum.
I'd like it to be quiet, obviously. There is no glass in front of the TV cabinet. I definitely want a one-box solution - not a separate server stored in a different room. I'd like a reasonable amount of hard disk space. My system should be pretty low-powered so I'm looking at low wattage CPUs etc.
I want to buy mostly new components where I can.
To a large extent this PC is intended to replace my Xbox running XBMC (Xbox Media Center, not as a games machine). That can play back the above type content with a PIII 733MHz in a nice small case so I'm looking for something just a bit (not a lot) bigger and better than that.
Components
I haven't got very detailed with components yet, as you'll see:
Case: Silverstone LC-02
CPU: AM2 Sempron with CnQ
Motherboard: don't know
CPU cooler: don't know
HDD: Some kind of 2.5"
ODD: Some kind of laptop ODD
My thoughts on each component below:
Case
Given my size constraints, the first thing I've looked at is the case. The dimension that seems particularly restrictive is the depth constraint of 300mm. There are a couple of Shuttle type PCs which are ok on the depth but which are too high.
The only two cases I've found which seem suitable are the Silverstone LC-02 and the LC-04. Does anyone know of any more 300mm deep cases I should look at?
The LC-04 is a little bigger which seems good for cooling, but I worry it might be too big for the hole it's going into - the sides and top would only have a gap of a centimetre or two before the sides of the hole.
So, I'm really looking at the LC-02, which will have about 40mm gap either side left and right and about 25mm gap at the top. I like the fact that I can put MiniITX, mATX and full ATX motherboards in this case, rather than limiting me. However, all the reviews of the LC-02 complain about it running too hot. Do you think I'll have a problem with this case and the components I'm choosing (see below)? Would taking out the PSU and replacing with an external power brick help?
CPU
After doing a bit of research, I think I can get away with a pretty slow CPU. I've thought about VIA Epia systems, or mobile on desktop, but I don't like the idea of restricting myself to one or two motherboards. MythTV on Linux can be a bit picky about hardware. So I'm looking at mainstream desktop processors, but still the slowest I can get.
It seems that a low Sempron would be cooler for what I want to do than any of the Intels so that's what I'm looking at. In terms of what is easily available these days it'll be a Socket AM2.
I'm not sure yet whether it's best to undervolt it, or get one which supports Cool'n'Quiet and let it do its own thing. I understand that it's a choice of one or the other - if I undervolt it in the BIOS then I lose the ability of the CPU to speed up if it needs to. What do you think?
Does anyone know for sure what is the slowest AM2 Sempron which supports CnQ? Some people say 1.8GHz is the cutoff, but I read that the 128k 1.8GHz doesn't support CnQ but the 256k 1.8GHz does. Anyone know for sure?
CPU cooler
The case isn't very high so I might have a problem picking a cooler - a Scythe is right out! Any suggestions? I've liked Zalman in the past.
Motherboard and chipset
I'm very confused at the choice of motherboard and motherboard chipset. I believe that Via can be unreliable and I've never heard of Uli, so I think I'm restricting myself to Nvidia or ATI chipsets (unless anyone can persuade me otherwise). I've heard people describe the nForce 4 and nForce 5 as hot. Are there hot chipsets and cool chipsets?
I'm not sure yet if I want onboard VGA, although I appreciate that it might be a very good idea with such a small case. For some reason the card of choice for MythTV is a Geforce 5200 (or 5300 in the PCIexpress form factor). (Apparently ATI aren't good and Nvidia removed some features in later chipsets which MythTV particularly makes use of).
If I get a motherboard with, for example, an Nvidia 6150 chipset but without VGA, would that be just as hot as a motherboard with the same chipset with VGA? If they are the same heat then I might just get one with onboard VGA and see how I get on without a card and maybe add a card later. If there are significant heat savings to be made by choosing a certain chipset/board without VGA, then I will go for the separate card straight away.
Once I know a bit more about cool chipsets/motherboards, I have several other requirements, such as it being able to wake up on a timer.
Oh by the way, has anyone seen any motherboards which have 6 USB sockets on the standard back panel? I've seen Dells which have that many but most standard motherboards only have 4. Given the small case I'd rather not sacrifice a PCI slot just for USB sockets.
Graphics card
As mentioned above, I'm looking at a Geforce 5300 (fanless).
HDDs
I'd like to try a 2.5" HDD in this case. However, the biggest 2.5" HDD I can get is 160GB, and I'd probably want more than that. If I doubled up and had two 160GB 2.5" HDDs would that be noisier or hotter than one 300GB 3.5" HDD?
I'll try to mount the HDDs on Sorbothane. Certainly with 2.5" there is room for that, but I'm not sure if there is room for Sorbothane with a 3.5" HDD in this case.
ODD
For the optical drive, it would need to be a laptop model for the LC-02. I'm not too bothered about make/model, or even noise, as I probably won't be using it too much.
Tuners
The DVB-T tuners will be USB, as I'm limited regarding cards in the LC-02 and because I don't want to increase heat inside the case. Specifically I'm looking at the Freecom DVB-T USB but I don't think that need worry anyone here.
Audio
I've heard onboard audio can be hissy when played through a TV and a cheap USB audio solution can solve that. I only need stereo. However, I think most motherboards have onboard audio (anyone know of motherboards that don't?) so I'll probably try the onboard stuff first.
Can anyone advise on the above and answer the questions inline?
Many thanks in advance,
pelago
Low power HTPC
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
No bites on this thread then? Maybe the length of my post was too long for people to bother to read (I don't blame you!)
I'll split it up into smaller topics and post them in the relevant sections, e.g. my questions about motherboards in the CPUs and Motherboards forum and my questions about HDDs in the Storage forum.
I'll split it up into smaller topics and post them in the relevant sections, e.g. my questions about motherboards in the CPUs and Motherboards forum and my questions about HDDs in the Storage forum.
Acording to wikipedia the 3200+ supports cool and quiet. I was not able to confirm this on the amd website. When I bought my low power HTPC I used an athlon64 3200+. It was pretty damn close to the same price. I used CrystalCPUID to undervolt my processor in windows. This basically allows me to set my own values for Cool and Quiet voltages and multipiers. I don't know if there is a similiar program on Linux. At 2.0Ghz, my system is stable at 1.05V and .9V at 1Ghz. At these voltages it is probably using no more than 20W.
For CPU cooling I use an Artic Cooling alpine7 and the fan runs at only 480rpm, keeping my processor at 45C at full load. This heatsink is fairly compact, is only $10, and does a good job with low airflow and low power cpus. It starts to get loud with anything over 50W and can't really keep with with 75W+ cpus. Even though the semprons and athlon64s say they are 65W processors, in reality they use about 35-40W until you get above 2Ghz when they begin to get a little hotter.
I also used a Abit NF-M2 Geforce 6150 board. There are many others that work just as well. This one is a little expensive and I think I could have gone for another. I don't know of any 6150 boards that allow bios undervolting.
The silverstone case has 2 usb ports on the side of the case bringing the total to 6 on most boards. I have not seen many boards with more than 4 on the back panel.
With that case you need to be careful about keeping everything as efficient as possible. The airflow looks terrible but it should be manageable with onboard video and a really cool single core processor. You might consider a fan swap in the power supply or another brick style power supply for that case.
Any board with HD audio should be good for your needs. HD audio is fairly common now on most boards. The old AC97 audio was barely passable.
Two 160GB 2.5" harddrives will be expensive. A single 300-500GB 3.5" will likely be louder but from the couch I doubt you will hear a good quiet one like the western digitals. Not sure where you will mount it.
For CPU cooling I use an Artic Cooling alpine7 and the fan runs at only 480rpm, keeping my processor at 45C at full load. This heatsink is fairly compact, is only $10, and does a good job with low airflow and low power cpus. It starts to get loud with anything over 50W and can't really keep with with 75W+ cpus. Even though the semprons and athlon64s say they are 65W processors, in reality they use about 35-40W until you get above 2Ghz when they begin to get a little hotter.
I also used a Abit NF-M2 Geforce 6150 board. There are many others that work just as well. This one is a little expensive and I think I could have gone for another. I don't know of any 6150 boards that allow bios undervolting.
The silverstone case has 2 usb ports on the side of the case bringing the total to 6 on most boards. I have not seen many boards with more than 4 on the back panel.
With that case you need to be careful about keeping everything as efficient as possible. The airflow looks terrible but it should be manageable with onboard video and a really cool single core processor. You might consider a fan swap in the power supply or another brick style power supply for that case.
Any board with HD audio should be good for your needs. HD audio is fairly common now on most boards. The old AC97 audio was barely passable.
Two 160GB 2.5" harddrives will be expensive. A single 300-500GB 3.5" will likely be louder but from the couch I doubt you will hear a good quiet one like the western digitals. Not sure where you will mount it.
Thanks for the reply autoboy. I see the page you mean ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool%27n%27Quiet ) that says the AM2 Semprom 3200+ is the lowest which supports Cool'n'Quiet, but do I trust Wikipedia I wonder. Can anyone else confirm?
I'm not quite sure yet whether I want to undervolt (i.e. fix the CPU at a certain speed) or use CnQ. I might be able to get away with just fixed undervolting in which case maybe a presumably cooler Sempron 2800+ would suit. It's so hard to decide! I think there are some Linux equivalents to CrystalCPUID but I haven't researched fully yet.
Regarding USB sockets, I was rather greedily hoping for 6 on the back and 2 near the front! All my work Dell Optiplexes over the last few years have exactly that configuration. I wanted to hang DVB tuners and infrared things off the back leaving the sockets near the front empty (just for an ocassional mouse/keyboard), but if it's not a common mainstream motherboard config then I'll manage without.
The hard disk in the LC-02 mounts on a tray that sits above the motherboard. The pictures in http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-221-2.htm show it quite well. I realise that two 2.5" HDDs would be more expensive, but ignoring the money, would two of the quietest 2.5" 160GB HDDs be louder than one of the quietest 3.5" hard disk, or use more power and generate more heat? Noise/power/heat is more of a worry than money (to an extent).
Another thing that worries me about a 3.5" HDD is how to mount it quietly. I was thinking of laying it on strips of Sorbothane which would raise the drive but I don't know if there is sufficient additional space above a 3.5" drive before the top of the case. Obviously with 2.5" HDDs there would be no such worries.
Another thought on HDDs might be to get one 2.5" 160GB HDD and when it gets full hope that HDD technology has progressed enough to replace it with (for example) one 2.5" 400GB HDD. I don't know if technology will keep up with my disk space requirements though!
I'm not quite sure yet whether I want to undervolt (i.e. fix the CPU at a certain speed) or use CnQ. I might be able to get away with just fixed undervolting in which case maybe a presumably cooler Sempron 2800+ would suit. It's so hard to decide! I think there are some Linux equivalents to CrystalCPUID but I haven't researched fully yet.
Regarding USB sockets, I was rather greedily hoping for 6 on the back and 2 near the front! All my work Dell Optiplexes over the last few years have exactly that configuration. I wanted to hang DVB tuners and infrared things off the back leaving the sockets near the front empty (just for an ocassional mouse/keyboard), but if it's not a common mainstream motherboard config then I'll manage without.
The hard disk in the LC-02 mounts on a tray that sits above the motherboard. The pictures in http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-221-2.htm show it quite well. I realise that two 2.5" HDDs would be more expensive, but ignoring the money, would two of the quietest 2.5" 160GB HDDs be louder than one of the quietest 3.5" hard disk, or use more power and generate more heat? Noise/power/heat is more of a worry than money (to an extent).
Another thing that worries me about a 3.5" HDD is how to mount it quietly. I was thinking of laying it on strips of Sorbothane which would raise the drive but I don't know if there is sufficient additional space above a 3.5" drive before the top of the case. Obviously with 2.5" HDDs there would be no such worries.
Another thought on HDDs might be to get one 2.5" 160GB HDD and when it gets full hope that HDD technology has progressed enough to replace it with (for example) one 2.5" 400GB HDD. I don't know if technology will keep up with my disk space requirements though!
Last edited by pelago on Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
Seems pretty certain. See this thread for example.Also ties in with AMD practice of only giving CnQ to 1.8Ghz+ models.says the AM2 Semprom 3200+ is the lowest which supports Cool'n'Quiet, but do I trust Wikipedia I wonder. Can anyone else confirm?
My 754 1.8Ghz 128K sempron does not have cool and quiet. The 256K version did. On AM2 it might be different. That is why i wanted to confirm it but didn't find anything from AMD in the 5min I looked. This question comes up a lot and I never have a good answer.
Doing bios undervolting is possible but you need a bios that undervolts. The only mATX board I know of that does this is the Biostar Tforce. I have 2 of these boards in 754 and they work great. However, the graphics core does not support purevideo. In Linux I am not sure if this matters. The 6100 in the Tforce is probably equivalent to the 5300 in terms of video processing. Linux uses Overlay for the most part so hardware features are not as important (I think
I'm not a Linux guy) and the 6100 should work fine. The 6100 does not have a TV encoder so you have to use VGA to your display device. If you need component or svideo a low profile Geforce 7100 would probably work well.
A big downside of the Tforce is the kinda crappy AC97 audio. If you are using TV speakers you should be fine but if you have a decent set of speakers you might consider a sound card for this board.
two notebook drives will probably be quieter than a single 3.5. You may be able to mount a 3.5 but you probably will not find out till you try. If you mount a 3.5 cooling it might be a problem. As long as you keep the drive below 50C you are in good shape. I put some small ram heatsinks on a drive that sat with no airflow once and it cooled it down a few degrees into the comfort zone. Drive noise will probably not be your biggest problem in this case. Keeping temps down with proper airflow and that power supply noise will be the biggest problems IMHO.
For airflow, I would duct the top vent to the cpu and allow the power supply fan to vent the case heat. With a really low power rig this should be enough cooling.
What is the operating envirnment of the case? is it in living room? do you sleep next to it? this will determine your noise threshold.\
Did you check the antec Minuet? it might be too deep but it has better cooling
Doing bios undervolting is possible but you need a bios that undervolts. The only mATX board I know of that does this is the Biostar Tforce. I have 2 of these boards in 754 and they work great. However, the graphics core does not support purevideo. In Linux I am not sure if this matters. The 6100 in the Tforce is probably equivalent to the 5300 in terms of video processing. Linux uses Overlay for the most part so hardware features are not as important (I think
I'm not a Linux guy) and the 6100 should work fine. The 6100 does not have a TV encoder so you have to use VGA to your display device. If you need component or svideo a low profile Geforce 7100 would probably work well.A big downside of the Tforce is the kinda crappy AC97 audio. If you are using TV speakers you should be fine but if you have a decent set of speakers you might consider a sound card for this board.
two notebook drives will probably be quieter than a single 3.5. You may be able to mount a 3.5 but you probably will not find out till you try. If you mount a 3.5 cooling it might be a problem. As long as you keep the drive below 50C you are in good shape. I put some small ram heatsinks on a drive that sat with no airflow once and it cooled it down a few degrees into the comfort zone. Drive noise will probably not be your biggest problem in this case. Keeping temps down with proper airflow and that power supply noise will be the biggest problems IMHO.
For airflow, I would duct the top vent to the cpu and allow the power supply fan to vent the case heat. With a really low power rig this should be enough cooling.
What is the operating envirnment of the case? is it in living room? do you sleep next to it? this will determine your noise threshold.\
Did you check the antec Minuet? it might be too deep but it has better cooling
Ah, this is probably one of the old Paris cores. However cache is not a good way to identify which has CnQ; there were at least 2 128kb 754 Sempys with CnQ, and one 256kb without it; pelago is talking about AM2 anyway, I suppose to most people 754 must seem like ancient history!My 754 1.8Ghz 128K sempron does not have cool and quiet. The 256K version did.
In the Palermo core (754) the 2800 had no C + Q,the 3000 did
The Manila core AM2 may be different-and on AMDs page it implies C + Q is a general feature of the line-no exceptions are mentioned. With a decent cooler,the 2800 tends to not even hit 30C,and the 3000 is apparently similar. both have the same clockspeed the 3000 has 256 cache the 2800-half that...but at Newegg----same price.
A mobo of note if you have an AGP vid card on hand is the MSI K9MM-v.small at 9.6" x 8.2..also low $ about $45
Better boards would be the Gigabyte GA M61 PM-S2 and the ASUS M2NBP VM CSM They are $70-75 have Smart Fan or Q Fan,each has 4 RAM slots-unusual for MATX. The Giga Has a LOT of USB available,the Asus has 2 PATA channels,both have 4 SATA. Being about the top of their MATX line-probably both use all or mostly solid capacitors. Both are generally stable,low fuss. Both are 9.6" square, and have above average onboard sound and onboard Vid.
That 3000 Sempy + the Asus or Gigabyte board would cost under 125 bucks, I'd think the 120 mm Thermalright with the 800 rpm Scythe fan would cool it well
The Manila core AM2 may be different-and on AMDs page it implies C + Q is a general feature of the line-no exceptions are mentioned. With a decent cooler,the 2800 tends to not even hit 30C,and the 3000 is apparently similar. both have the same clockspeed the 3000 has 256 cache the 2800-half that...but at Newegg----same price.
A mobo of note if you have an AGP vid card on hand is the MSI K9MM-v.small at 9.6" x 8.2..also low $ about $45
Better boards would be the Gigabyte GA M61 PM-S2 and the ASUS M2NBP VM CSM They are $70-75 have Smart Fan or Q Fan,each has 4 RAM slots-unusual for MATX. The Giga Has a LOT of USB available,the Asus has 2 PATA channels,both have 4 SATA. Being about the top of their MATX line-probably both use all or mostly solid capacitors. Both are generally stable,low fuss. Both are 9.6" square, and have above average onboard sound and onboard Vid.
That 3000 Sempy + the Asus or Gigabyte board would cost under 125 bucks, I'd think the 120 mm Thermalright with the 800 rpm Scythe fan would cool it well
The LC-02 case will actually fit full ATX motherboards so I'm not limited to mATX. This should be a good thing as I understand that mATX boards tend to be of a lower quality in general, and there is a much wider choice of ATX.
I've been looking all over the AMD site and I can't believe they don't say which AM2 Semprons support CnQ! I'm going for AM2, by the way, as I want to buy new and there aren't many 754 motherboards left. (Did Sempron ever come out in a 939 version?)
I believe the Geforce 5200/5300 vs 6xxx thing is something very specific to Nvidia's Linux drivers and features that MythTV uses. See for example the thread http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/m ... ers/248307 . I realise that using onboard video would be cooler, but I want decent picture quality too. I think I can hook up with VGA with my TV, although it would be nice to have S-Video too.
What's the difference between the Nvidia 6100 and 6150 motherboard chipsets? Are these 'Nforce 6'? Are they cooler than Nforce 4 and Nforce 5 which I heard are very hot chipsets? Is there a league table anywhere of cool/hot chipsets?
This PC will be in my living room which I won't be sleeping in. My goal is to get it quieter than the Xbox which it will replace, which is pretty loud, and hopefully about the same noise level or quieter than a VCR. On some occasions I want the PC to be switched on and recording while I have the TV switched off, and I wouldn't want it to be too loud for such a nice quiet night in.
The Antec Minuet looks good but unfortunately its dimensions of about 320mm wide x 100mm high x 430mm deep mean it's too deep for my shelf of 460mm wide, 125mm high and 300mm deep (I can't really rotate it sideways as I need access to the ODD!).
It's the 300mm depth (actually, I can probably go up to 320 or 340) that's the real killer restriction. I'm beginning to wonder if I should 'mod' my shelves to give myself more depth, as if I could get to 400mm deep there are plenty of other cases I could use.
I've been looking all over the AMD site and I can't believe they don't say which AM2 Semprons support CnQ! I'm going for AM2, by the way, as I want to buy new and there aren't many 754 motherboards left. (Did Sempron ever come out in a 939 version?)
I believe the Geforce 5200/5300 vs 6xxx thing is something very specific to Nvidia's Linux drivers and features that MythTV uses. See for example the thread http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/m ... ers/248307 . I realise that using onboard video would be cooler, but I want decent picture quality too. I think I can hook up with VGA with my TV, although it would be nice to have S-Video too.
What's the difference between the Nvidia 6100 and 6150 motherboard chipsets? Are these 'Nforce 6'? Are they cooler than Nforce 4 and Nforce 5 which I heard are very hot chipsets? Is there a league table anywhere of cool/hot chipsets?
This PC will be in my living room which I won't be sleeping in. My goal is to get it quieter than the Xbox which it will replace, which is pretty loud, and hopefully about the same noise level or quieter than a VCR. On some occasions I want the PC to be switched on and recording while I have the TV switched off, and I wouldn't want it to be too loud for such a nice quiet night in.
The Antec Minuet looks good but unfortunately its dimensions of about 320mm wide x 100mm high x 430mm deep mean it's too deep for my shelf of 460mm wide, 125mm high and 300mm deep (I can't really rotate it sideways as I need access to the ODD!).
It's the 300mm depth (actually, I can probably go up to 320 or 340) that's the real killer restriction. I'm beginning to wonder if I should 'mod' my shelves to give myself more depth, as if I could get to 400mm deep there are plenty of other cases I could use.
Anyways case wise I would try to go with the LC04 if you can, it's easier to get a quieter 80mm fan then a 60mm fan.
Hard drive wise I would consider a Samsung Spinpoint 3.5mm hard drive putting one 200-300GB Spinpoint in with AAM enabled will likely be quieter then two 160GB 2.5mm hard drives, it will also be much cheaper.
Though their is less of a selection of mATX boards they are of no less quality then an ATX board from the same company.
Now about on board vs external graphics given the same graphics chipset there is no difference in output between either type.
If you want a board with a good on board chip set consider the DFI RS482 it's s939, but it has a x300 onboard it's x200 ATI chipset (yes I know that sound weird). But not only that it has on board optical SPDIF, DVI, VGA, and a S-video multi-jack that supports component and composite out.
I run my HTPC on this board, and it operates fantastically at 720p. Of course it does make choosing a CPU a bit harder. The slowest processor available for it is the Athlon 64 3400, but the RS482 supports undervolting the CPU while still keeping Cool and Quiet support.
Hard drive wise I would consider a Samsung Spinpoint 3.5mm hard drive putting one 200-300GB Spinpoint in with AAM enabled will likely be quieter then two 160GB 2.5mm hard drives, it will also be much cheaper.
Though their is less of a selection of mATX boards they are of no less quality then an ATX board from the same company.
Now about on board vs external graphics given the same graphics chipset there is no difference in output between either type.
If you want a board with a good on board chip set consider the DFI RS482 it's s939, but it has a x300 onboard it's x200 ATI chipset (yes I know that sound weird). But not only that it has on board optical SPDIF, DVI, VGA, and a S-video multi-jack that supports component and composite out.
I run my HTPC on this board, and it operates fantastically at 720p. Of course it does make choosing a CPU a bit harder. The slowest processor available for it is the Athlon 64 3400, but the RS482 supports undervolting the CPU while still keeping Cool and Quiet support.
The LC-04 is the only other case I've found which is roughly 300mm deep which is great. The only thing that worries me about it is that because it is bigger it will be more of a tight fit on my shelf. There will only be about a 1 centimetre gap above it and 2 centimetres to the left and the right. Is that too tight? My shelf has plenty of gap at the back (and front, obviously) but some of the airflow in the LC-02 and LC-04 is through the sides and out (or in) the top, so it seems to me it should have a bit more clearance.
I'm a complete amateur on this subject though, so is my gut feeling correct that one or two centimetres is not enough clearance?
This is my TV unit, by the way. Click it for more images.
The LC-04 would pretty much fill one of the four upper shelves, with the LC-02 being a bit smaller. Unforunately the bigger lower shelves are filled with baskets used as drawers to hold games controllers, cables, etc.
I'm a complete amateur on this subject though, so is my gut feeling correct that one or two centimetres is not enough clearance?
This is my TV unit, by the way. Click it for more images.
The LC-04 would pretty much fill one of the four upper shelves, with the LC-02 being a bit smaller. Unforunately the bigger lower shelves are filled with baskets used as drawers to hold games controllers, cables, etc.
Just to confirm, the AM2 Sempron 3200 does support CnQ.
I have this chip myself but I've disabled CnQ because I undervolt - my particular chip will run the stock 1.8GHz clock at just 0.975v. Unfortunately, the motherboard won't allow undervolting in BIOS when CnQ is set. The chip will also run at 1.6GHz @ 0.925v or 1.4Ghz @ 0.9v if I want to knock another few watts off and I'm very pleased with it - not sure if I was just lucky with this one or if most will run similar speeds with similar voltages.
I have this chip myself but I've disabled CnQ because I undervolt - my particular chip will run the stock 1.8GHz clock at just 0.975v. Unfortunately, the motherboard won't allow undervolting in BIOS when CnQ is set. The chip will also run at 1.6GHz @ 0.925v or 1.4Ghz @ 0.9v if I want to knock another few watts off and I'm very pleased with it - not sure if I was just lucky with this one or if most will run similar speeds with similar voltages.
I think I'll go for the LC-04 case then, if the clearance either side and above will be ok (anyone else want to comment on that?). If the clearance is ok, I generally feel happier with that case compared to the LC-02, as it had a good review in SPCR ( http://www.silentpcreview.com/article183-page1.html ).
I'll suspend a 200GB 2.5" HDD, as discussed in Silent Storage ( viewtopic.php?t=34184 ), although I haven't heard for sure yet how loud the two existing 200GB 2.5" drives are.
AM2 Sempron 3200+ it is then. I'm still looking for a motherboard - I'm going to try to go for a 6150SE (single chip) one, hopefully with a decent BIOS to undervolt and/or CnQ. What motherboard do you have, Mariner?
Ah, it's nice to have at least made some of the decisions!
I'll suspend a 200GB 2.5" HDD, as discussed in Silent Storage ( viewtopic.php?t=34184 ), although I haven't heard for sure yet how loud the two existing 200GB 2.5" drives are.
AM2 Sempron 3200+ it is then. I'm still looking for a motherboard - I'm going to try to go for a 6150SE (single chip) one, hopefully with a decent BIOS to undervolt and/or CnQ. What motherboard do you have, Mariner?
Ah, it's nice to have at least made some of the decisions!
I have an ASRock ALiveNF4G-DVI. Nice and cheap and I've had no problems with stability. Pretty sure that all the ASRock nForce 410/430 motherboards support undervolting in the BIOS.
My system is in a Silverstone LC19 - very nice looking case but such low-profile that it's a real pain in the arse to deal with! The layout of the motherboard was slightly problematic with this case as well and I needed to buy a power cable extension to fit round the side of the heatsink. Still, my system is now working fine, is virtually silent and I'm very happy just as long as I forget about the atrocious tangle of cables inside the case!
My system is in a Silverstone LC19 - very nice looking case but such low-profile that it's a real pain in the arse to deal with! The layout of the motherboard was slightly problematic with this case as well and I needed to buy a power cable extension to fit round the side of the heatsink. Still, my system is now working fine, is virtually silent and I'm very happy just as long as I forget about the atrocious tangle of cables inside the case!
I'm using an SDTV CRT. I may not need the Svideo. I'll be trying to connect my video card to my TV using a custom VGA-to-RGB-SCART lead (see http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/168107.aspx). The Svideo was just a backup connection if the VGA-to-SCART lead doesn't work out.
Can anyone else comment on whether a gap of an inch either side and half-an-inch above is sufficient for airflow for the LC-04 case? PPGMD said it should be ok but I'd like at least one more person telling me not to worry, and then I can at least get on and order the case!
Can anyone else comment on whether a gap of an inch either side and half-an-inch above is sufficient for airflow for the LC-04 case? PPGMD said it should be ok but I'd like at least one more person telling me not to worry, and then I can at least get on and order the case!
gunna add my .02 here. I just built a PC using the Asus 6150/430 AM2 board, and it was painless to setup and worked great out of the box.
Has onboard video (6150) that supports PureVideo, which is nice for DVD's. Also onboard i/o connectors for VGA and DVI, a breakout panel for Component/Svid/RCA Vid was also included in the box.
IMO, a mATX board is more suitable for you since you get built in video on most and theyre cheaper. I'd go w/ the 6150 series for PureVideo support and a AM2 based one at that. The new AMD X2 3600+ is a nice cheap dual core AMD cpu. should be more than capable for your needs and then future proof some as well.
avoid Vista like the plauge for your HTPC as its DRM is crazy from what I understand.
two 2.5" 160gb drives may be quieter, but they will be more expensive, take up more room, and be slower than a WD 500gb "ks" model. The KS model gets the SPCR top 3.5" drive recommendation and its not that expensive (probably cheaper than two 160gb 2.5" drives)
do you plan to hook up this PC to a stereo via SPDIF? if so, you could stick w/ onboard audio, or get a Dolby Digital Live card ($100 or so) which encodes EVERYTHING to DD.
good luck. have fun.
Has onboard video (6150) that supports PureVideo, which is nice for DVD's. Also onboard i/o connectors for VGA and DVI, a breakout panel for Component/Svid/RCA Vid was also included in the box.
IMO, a mATX board is more suitable for you since you get built in video on most and theyre cheaper. I'd go w/ the 6150 series for PureVideo support and a AM2 based one at that. The new AMD X2 3600+ is a nice cheap dual core AMD cpu. should be more than capable for your needs and then future proof some as well.
avoid Vista like the plauge for your HTPC as its DRM is crazy from what I understand.
two 2.5" 160gb drives may be quieter, but they will be more expensive, take up more room, and be slower than a WD 500gb "ks" model. The KS model gets the SPCR top 3.5" drive recommendation and its not that expensive (probably cheaper than two 160gb 2.5" drives)
do you plan to hook up this PC to a stereo via SPDIF? if so, you could stick w/ onboard audio, or get a Dolby Digital Live card ($100 or so) which encodes EVERYTHING to DD.
good luck. have fun.
Thanks. I'll be running Linux which unfortunately means I won't be able to take advantage of PureVideo but at least means I'll be DRM-free. My audio requirements are very modest, just old-fashioned stereo out of the TV speakers. (Calling this thing a Home Theatre PC is over the top really - I just want a more fancy VCR!)
I'm almost certainly going to ignore your 3.5" HDD recommendation I'm afraid. I'm pretty much sold on the 2.5" idea. I'm actually now looking at one of the two 200GB 2.5" HDDs, see thread at viewtopic.php?t=34184 . I'll probably start with one drive for now and see how my requirements grow in the future.
I'm almost certainly going to ignore your 3.5" HDD recommendation I'm afraid. I'm pretty much sold on the 2.5" idea. I'm actually now looking at one of the two 200GB 2.5" HDDs, see thread at viewtopic.php?t=34184 . I'll probably start with one drive for now and see how my requirements grow in the future.
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Palindroman
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:00 am
I estimate your system will consume about 33 watts. The Asrock board seems really good for undervolting, but hasn't any fan control (at least, not for 3-pin fans). You could save some more watts by undervolting but it's not that simple in Linux. There's a HowTo about dynamic throttling in Ubuntu, I'll post it tomorrow. And I don't know about drivers for Linux with the Asrock board.
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Palindroman
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:00 am
Here's the HowTo: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=248867
Good luck and please let us know how it all works out for you.
Good luck and please let us know how it all works out for you.