Ultra 120-Extreme, Ultima 90i, Ninja - Ease of installation

[TooNice]

I've decided to buy a P182 for my next build (the next gen Core Duo/Quad in Q1/08) and am currently shopping for a HSF. I've narrowed my choices down to those 3 (probably the usual suspects).

In order to make my decision, I'd like to find out more about their ease of installation. So far, I've gotten away without installing any heavy tower heatsink. But my next build will place more emphasis to noise, so it will be important that I find a solid heatsink that will work well in moderately low airflow. I have no intention of going fully passive, nor can justify the cost of a Nexus. The fan I will be using is most likely going to be Yate Loon @7 or 5V. I suspect that with this fan, at those speed, the Extreme would perform slightly better than the Ninja.

The nice thing about the Ninja is that I can already fit it on my 939 without buying additional bracket. But I am wondering if any of those heatsink have a higher risk of crushing the core in the hand of a novice.

[tehfire]

With moderate to low airflow, the Ninja will be your best bet. If you're using it on any socket other than LGA-775 you should be good, but the Ninja has a very bad mounting mechanism for LGA-775. Seeing as you're planning the system as a Core2, this kinda rules out the Ninja.

Both the Ultra-120X and Ultima-90 are similar in mounting, so it comes down to a trade-off between price and performance. The Ultima is fine for regular uses (no crazy O/Cs, etc.) and is lighter and cheaper. The 120X is the king, however.

[TooNice]

Thanks. What is the issue with the Ninja and LGA-775?

[tehfire]

The Ninja on the 775 uses the standard Intel pushpins to mount to the motherboard, whereas the Thermalright systems use s bolt-thru kit. Aside from being pretty hard to get attached, the Ninja system doesn't apply enough pressure on the CPU, which leads to higher temps. You can buy a bolt-thru kit from Thermalright and that lowers temps a lot (up to 10C), but seeing that you were looking for ease-of-use this is kind of a pain.

[nick705]

But I am wondering if any of those heatsink have a higher risk of crushing the core in the hand of a novice.

You'd have to try very, very hard to crush a C2D/C2Q - the core itself is protected by the heatspreader, and IIRC the Intel specs allow for >70lb of pressure from the heatsink. Also, the Thermalrights have spring-loaded screws which tighten to a pre-determined amount and then stop, so you'd have to be extraordinarily ham-fisted to do any damage.

The Ninja's stock mounting is a notorious PITA, and I won't bore you with another rant on the subject - suffice it to say, its reported effectiveness is "variable." It has no real convenience advantage either, as you need to remove the mobo to be sure of getting a decent mounting, in spite of Scythe's protestations to the contrary.

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably go for the Ultra-120, simply because it's very much a known quantity and is more or less guaranteed to perform well "out of the box" so to speak, regardless of whichever fan you strap to it.

[TooNice]

Thanks. Can you explain a bit or perhaps link me to explanation of this bolt-thru system? Is it the type of installation where you would benefit from having 3 hands and/or the HS is secured in one go rather than through gradual application of pressure? And when you say that you can buy a bolt-thru kit do you mean that it would work for the Ninja?

[nick705]

If you've not come across the stock Intel LGA775 HSF mounting system before, basically it has four spring-loaded "cylinders," which you push down on (very hard), and it forces clips through the holes in the motherboard, which "expand" on the reverse side of the mobo PCB, locking the HSF in place. The main problems IMO are the sweat-inducing force it takes to drive the clips into place, the uncertainty as to whether the clips have engaged properly and, as tehfire mentioned, possible insufficent pressure on the CPU once you've actually mounted the thing.

The mass of the heatsink is supported by the "shoulders" of the plastic clips hooking behind the motherboard PCB, which makes some people (me included) rather nervous - obviously it would be more of a concern with something the size and weight of a Ninja or Infinity than with the stock Intel heatsink, although I have to admit I've never heard of one actually breaking loose (which is not to say it can't happen).

"Bolt-thru" systems have a rigid plate behind the CPU area of the motherboard, and the heatsink is clamped solidly to that with bolts/screws, by one means or another - much better (and easier) IMO although, yes, having three hands can sometimes be a distinct advantage.

The Ninja in its as-delivered form uses the stock (pushpin) type of mounting, but many people have used it with the Thermalright aftermarket "bolt-thru" kit (not required for the Ultra-120 or Ultima-90, which have their own bolt-thru mechanisms) - I haven't done it myself, so can't really comment, but it seems to be a successful mod by all accounts. You might not be able to get hold of it, though, depending on your location - it seems to have been discontinued in the UK, although it's still widely available in N. America.

The Ninja is undoubtedly a top-class heatsink (mounting apart), and you may think it's worth the effort, but personally I tend to go for the easy option - hence my recommendation of the Ultra-120, which is about as good as air-cooling gets in any case...

[TooNice]

Thanks. Yes I've come across mechanism that required 'sweat inducing force', and it is exactly what I would like to avoid when mounting those bigger than I am used to heatsinks.

Is it straightforward to tell whether the HSF is securely attached, but not too much using a bolt/screw system?

I guess the other option is to see if Scythe will do a 3rd revision of the Ninja. It's quite amazing how well that heatsink stood the test of time.

[tehfire]

Well Scythe has been on the 2nd revision for a long time. When the Mini-Ninja came out there was an opportunity to improve the mounting system, but they didn't so I guess they don't care that we think it's lousy.

Yes, with the Thermalright setups it is very easy to tell when the HSF is securely attached. The screws stop turning at the right pressure and refuse to turn anymore. It'd take quite an effort not to notice this point and break something.

[quadraphonic]

I just installed an Ultima 90, though I should preface this post with the fact that it is the FIRST and ONLY heatsink I've ever installed.

Overall, I think installation wasn't too bad, though there was the odd hiccup. When I was installing the base plate, I found you had to be careful screwing the screws into the base posts because any download pressure would unseat the o-rings leaving you with excess movement in the backplate. After a few attempts and a light hand, I got the base mounted to my satisfaction.

Mounting the heatsink itself wasn't too bad at all. Once placed on the processor, there's a small bridge piece that crosses it's base. It's this bridge that you use the spring mounted screws on. They go through the bridge and mount to two crossbars attached to the base plate. I'd alternate between screws, giving each a few turns at a time to keep the pressure even.

When I stood my tower up, everything seemed relatively stable and I haven't had any problems to date, though installation was only last Saturday.

Anyway, that's my $0.02. Didn't seem as challenging as the Ninja, from what I've read.

[TooNice]

Has anyone done tested the Ultima-90i at fairly low airflow (YL @ 7/5V) next to the other, heavier contenders? From what I understand there is not much to gain (or rather lose) height wise, but it does both my PC and wallet £10 (over $20) lighter. CPU do not seem to be getting hotter for the time being, so perhaps it doesn't make sense to spend almost 1/5th the cost of a very good CPU on a hunk of metal anymore. Having said that, considering how well the Ninja competes with the Ultra 120E, at low airflow, I can't help but wonder if the significantly lighter Ultima 90i is up to the task.

[djkest]

Is this is bolt-through kit you are talking about for use w/ the ninja?

this generic one

this is thermalright brand

It's hard for me to figure this out, and searching yields many results

[djkest]

bump for my question

[CallMeJoe]

Is this is bolt-through kit you are talking about for use w/ the ninja?...It's hard for me to figure this out, and searching yields many results

I think it's This One.

[F for Fragging]

Interesting topic, I am facing the dilemma of choosing between the Ninja and the Ultra-120 eXtreme as well. The Ninja has bad mounting and is slightly cheaper, but the Ultra-120 eXtreme is more expensive, and performs identically to the Ninja at low airflow according to the SPCR review even though it's bigger.

After reading nick705's post in this topic I'm convinced that I shouldn't buy a Ninja. I didn't know about the Ultima-90 which is mentioned in this post, but after looking it up it seems it could be a good compromise, being cheaper and smaller than the Ultra-120 eXtreme, with a mounting system identical to the Ultra-120 eXtreme.

In reply to TooNice, I have found these forum topics at SPCR - this one and this one - and there is this review at Anandtech which indicates that the Ultima 90 performs identical to a Ninja with a 1600 rpm Scythe S-Flex. That still doesn't answer how it would perform with low airflow (I intend to use an 800 rpm Scythe Slip Stream myself) but I assume performance would still be good enough.

Pricing at the internet store where I want to buy is as follows:

Ninja + bolt-thru kit = € 36,20 + € 5,74 = € 41,94
Ultima-90 = € 37,95
Ultra-120 eXtreme = € 43,90

I'm disappointed with the high cost, but because I could keep using the heatsink for a new systems in the future while other hardware like CPU's and mobo's need to be upgraded (unless future CPU's start using a new socket of course) it justifies the high cost for me. The minor price difference between the heatsinks doesn't influence the decision.

However, I've still got to decide now if I buy an Ultima-90 or an Ultra-120 eXtreme, and at this point I need some help. Principally I'd like to buy an Ultra-120 eXtreme, but it's size worries me, it seems to barely fit inside an Antec Solo - as you can see in this topic - which I intend to buy for my new system. But I wonder if it will fit if I use it with Sparkle's passive 8800GT in my system. At this website - a Dutch website, but that isn't important, scroll down and click the second image - you can see a Scythe Infinity/Mugen which is 120 mm wide together with the passive 8800GT. There still is some space left between them, but the Ultra-120 eXtreme is 132 mm wide, 12 mm extra. Would it still fit then? I can't really judge the distance from the image, but possibly someone who has both the Ultra-120 eXtreme and the passive 8800GT could tell me? If they don't fit I'd have to buy an Ultima-90.

[djkest]

Ah ha. With the prices you have to pay the ninja isn't a very good deal. Here, the Ninja is $35 WITH an 800 rpm slipstream fan, and the TRUE-120 is $60 without a fan. And the bolt-through kit is $4.

[Voldenuit]

I intend to use an 800 rpm Scythe Slip Stream.

Do be aware that the 800rpm Scythe has a high starting voltage.

Principally I'd like to buy an Ultra-120 eXtreme, but it's size worries me, it seems to barely fit inside an Antec Solop

Looks like it fits fine to me. In fact, they even had room to put the speed controller on top of the Ultra!

Just ordered an Ultima 90 for myself. The extra size of the TRUE is not worth the hassle for me (building a uATX system in a Silverstone TJ-08 ). It's only a few degrees off the TRUE, and similar performance to a Tuniq Tower at half the size is nothing to sneeze at.

The question that remains is how well it performs at low airflow, but I think we can safely say that the Ninja is the king there.

[F for Fragging]

djkest, that's a huge price difference.

Voldenuit, yes, but did you think I intended to undervolt? My thoughts were that the advantage of the 800 rpm version is that it's silent at full speed/12V so that I don't need to undervolt.

[robaal]

[...] I wonder if it will fit if I use it with Sparkle's passive 8800GT in my system. At this website - a Dutch website, but that isn't important, scroll down and click the second image - you can see a Scythe Infinity/Mugen which is 120 mm wide together with the passive 8800GT. There still is some space left between them, but the Ultra-120 eXtreme is 132 mm wide, 12 mm extra. Would it still fit then?

The Infinity is actually 125mm wide, so the TRUE-120 would be 7mm wider total, and only 3,5mm on each side.