Dilema Sapphire HD 6850 vs. MSI GTX 460 Hawk

They make noise, too.

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Sirius
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:05 am

Dilema Sapphire HD 6850 vs. MSI GTX 460 Hawk

Post by Sirius » Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:12 am

Hello all,

i got all the PC parts (i5-760, Antec P193..) except the graphic card. Computer usage is only for graphic design (no games), and i would appreciate if anyone could help me with noise levels of these cards:

1. Sapphire HD 6850 1GB
2. MSI GTX 460 HAWK 1GB

i've read about Sapphire 6850 being quite silent, but MSI Hawk model has some low level noise reviews..

Many thanks in advance.

Frosty Grin
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:19 pm

Re: Dilema Sapphire HD 6850 vs. MSI GTX 460 Hawk

Post by Frosty Grin » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:29 pm

The MSI N460GTX HAWK appears to be significantly louder than the Sapphire Radeon HD 6850, especially at idle.

Sirius
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:05 am

Re: Dilema Sapphire HD 6850 vs. MSI GTX 460 Hawk

Post by Sirius » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:10 am

Yes, these links show Sapphire being quite silent than MSI 460 Hawk.

Sapphire 6850 idle: 10,5 dB
Sapphire 6850 load: 22,8 dB

MSI 460 Hawk idle: 19,8 dB
MSI 460 Hawk load: 24,8 dB

So far, Sapphire has multiple advantages: silence, price and lower power consumption.
There's a temperature issue, but i think Antec P193 will solve it :)

Thank you for the asnwer!

allwinner
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Location: East

Re: Dilema Sapphire HD 6850 vs. MSI GTX 460 Hawk

Post by allwinner » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:56 am

The Sapphire 6850 is the superior card, all factors considered. My opinion of the Sapphire 6850 can be read here. The card's also undervolts quite well which creates even greater cooling/noise profile. Thread here.

What is not mentioned in my post above is that I'm familiar with the 460 line and noise character of cards similar to the GTX 460 Hawk as a result of purchasing an ECS NBGTX460-1GPI-F (which uses an Arctic Cooling Accelero Twin Turbo Pro) and owning an MSI GTX260 Twin Frozr (uses heatsink/fans similar to the GTX460 Hawk).

The Hawk at minimum rpm will likely be anything but quiet for two reasons:
(1) Most 460 cards are using the a high hardwired fan rpm minimum no matter the after market cooling. I believe the lowest is an EVGA that is set to 30% on a singe fan solution. ECS cooling solution is likely superior to the MSI Hawk's but still had a hardwired minimum of 40%. As a result, both fans spun at 1500-1800 (I don't remember which). I returned the card b/c it was too loud (the card also exhibited annoying coil whine consistent with a bunch of reviewers' experiences on Newegg - those reviews appear to have been deleted).
(2) The Hawk uses high rpm thin plastic fans. Even if MSI is limited to a 30% minimum, those high rpm dual fans spinning at the same time will not be quiet. I would expect the noise character to be similar to that of the MSI GTX260 Twin Frozr which I owned. Even when reducing the fans to their lowest speeds, they were not quiet. This necessitated the mod pictured in my post linked above. I do not know if you could mod the 460 Hawk in a similar fashion without making it obvious you modified the cooler.

These problems may or may not be correctable:
(1) Bios modification - Perhaps you can mod the bios to reduce the hardwired minimum. However, I do not know the status of bios mod support for the MSI 460. Of course, this also entails some risks.
(2) Fan modification. With a fan replacement, you don't have to be concerned about the minimum rpm's of the card's fan controller. The Hawk (or similar Gigabyte that also uses the non-stock heatsink) is a good choice for a 460 b/c the size of the heatsink is large enough that a simple fan mod precludes the need to purchase an aftermarket cooler. Such a mod was not possible with the ECS without voiding the warranty because screws necessary to remove the frame were covered by an adhesive logo (Note that some manufacturers allow aftermarket modifications under their warranty. I did not bother to check ECS' warranty b/c the coil whine was unacceptable in any event). I would conduct further research between the Gigabytes (they have 3 different models with different non-reference after market cooling solutions) and the MSI Hawk before purchasing. I believe the Gigabyte's might use larger heatsinks than the MSI solution.

Besides these complications, additional factors weigh in the favor of the 6850: (1) Power Draw - The 6850 is more power efficient than the 460; (2) Overall Cooling - They generally run cooler leaving less heat to remove from the case & enabling adequate cooling at lower fan rpms); (3) Performance - The 6850 is generally a slightly faster card than the 460.

The only factors that favor purchasing the 460 is price (if you're not looking for a particular model, the 460 can frequently be purchased for much less than the 6850, particularly the 768mb models) and Physx support (not much of a factor, imo - it's applicable in a handful of games at most).

Non-Disclaimer ;) : I do not have a bias toward either company's products generally. In fact, I haven't had an ATI card in my PCs since an ATI x850xt (long long ago) until recently. Subsequent to the x850, I owned 2 x 8800gt (w/Acceleros), 2 x 8800GTS 512mb (in SLI w/Acceleros), a 7600gt and a GTX260. I recently replaced one 8800gt with a silent 5750 (for the htpc), the MSI GTX260 with the Sapphire 6850 and continue to use one 8800gt w/Accelero.

Sirius
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Re: Dilema Sapphire HD 6850 vs. MSI GTX 460 Hawk

Post by Sirius » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:59 pm

Allwinner - that's a serious and illustrious review! Just the information i needed (to confirm Sapphire's domination :).
I'll be getting the card in couple of days, just as i choose the motherboard :)

1. Power consumption - HD6850 takes the lead in power efficiency
2. Noise - HD 6850 generates less noise.
3. Price - Sapphire 6850 costs cca. 50$ less from MSI HAwk 460. 6850 takes the lead again.

Frosty Grin
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Re: Dilema Sapphire HD 6850 vs. MSI GTX 460 Hawk

Post by Frosty Grin » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:29 am

allwinner wrote:I returned the card b/c it was too loud (the card also exhibited annoying coil whine consistent with a bunch of reviewers' experiences on Newegg - those reviews appear to have been deleted).
My Sapphire HD6850 exhibits coil whine, too. It doesn't really bother me because it isn't that loud and only happens under load, so even my open headphones mask it. But, no, coil whine isn't a GTX 460 thing.

allwinner
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Re: Dilema Sapphire HD 6850 vs. MSI GTX 460 Hawk

Post by allwinner » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:29 am

Frosty Grin wrote:My Sapphire HD6850 exhibits coil whine, too. It doesn't really bother me because it isn't that loud and only happens under load, so even my open headphones mask it. But, no, coil whine isn't a GTX 460 thing.
Agreed, 460's generally do not exhibit coil whine. It certainly was with that particular ECS 460 model. The comment was for those that may come upon the post after searching for the particular ECS 460 (since it's marketed as a quiet model and this is SPCR).

Ozkar
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Re: Dilema Sapphire HD 6850 vs. MSI GTX 460 Hawk

Post by Ozkar » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:30 am

I was looking for the Sapphire HD 6850 and found two options at newegg.com:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... &x=24&y=29

Which is the best one (the silent one)?

allwinner
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:52 am
Location: East

Re: Dilema Sapphire HD 6850 vs. MSI GTX 460 Hawk

Post by allwinner » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:18 am

Ozkar wrote:I was looking for the Sapphire HD 6850 and found two options at newegg.com:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... &x=24&y=29

Which is the best one (the silent one)?
The version that has been widely commented on as quiet is Model 100315L, surprisingly the cheaper model. The "toxic" model apparently has a superior heatsink (along with a default overclock, 2 power lines and a superior PCB) but that doesn't necessarily mean it's quieter. I have no first hand experience with the toxic (fair overview of the toxic hardware here). The heatsink actually looks smaller than the non-toxic version (although it has 3 heatpipes vs. 2). Whether or not the toxic is actually a better overclocker is up for debate. The unit in the review oc'd close to 1ghz/1.2ghz (core/mem). It appears most reference models will do 950mhz/1.15ghz. Not a significant difference, imo. Even if noise wasn't an issue and I was looking for a card to overclock, I wouldn't recommend the Toxic over the other model given the price difference b/w the two.

Here is a review that compare the two Sapphire versions. The link is to the noise testing. Notably, the toxic is louder at load but quieter at idle. This review confirms the toxic is louder at load but finds them similar at idle. Alas, the idle noise ratings in those reviews have limited real world application for those of us who use software to define our fan profiles. None of those cards tested (at their default fan profiles) are going to satisfy someone looking for low noise. Ultimately, you're left to word of mouth (or personal experimentation) on determining idle noise b/c I haven't read reviews where they redefine the idle fan profile lower than the mfgr default. Given that the two fans are different types of fans, the toxic fan may not be as quiet at lower rpm's (amongst other possibilities).
Last edited by allwinner on Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Aneon
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Re: Dilema Sapphire HD 6850 vs. MSI GTX 460 Hawk

Post by Aneon » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:23 pm

My own Google research has lead me to believe that the best silent graphic card at that performance level is the Gigabyte GTX 460 SOC.

See this comparison.

Unless I hear contradictory results, I'm planning to buy one this week for a silent gaming PC.

However, if you're not planning to play any games at all and are not designing real-time 3D graphics (or CAD perhaps), you could probably come by with a much cheaper graphic card, such as a passive 5770.

allwinner
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Location: East

Re: Dilema Sapphire HD 6850 vs. MSI GTX 460 Hawk

Post by allwinner » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:44 pm

Aneon wrote:My own Google research has lead me to believe that the best silent graphic card at that performance level is the Gigabyte GTX 460 SOC.

See this comparison.

Unless I hear contradictory results, I'm planning to buy one this week for a silent gaming PC.

However, if you're not planning to play any games at all and are not designing real-time 3D graphics (or CAD perhaps), you could probably come by with a much cheaper graphic card, such as a passive 5770.
Those comparisons at idle are worthless for the reasons I stated above. No one that is seeking a quiet PC relies on default fan profiles b/c any gaming video card that doesn't come with a fanless cooler is simply too loud to achieve anything near quiet.

Of course, modifying fan profiles applies only to the extent the hardware permits it. This is the GTX 460's primary flaw as a quiet card. See my post above as to why obtaining a silent GTX460 without requiring further modification is futile at this point. Also see my recent post for comments on the ECS and the MSI heatsinks, including pictures.


If you're going to purchase a GTX460, read my post above re: MSI or Gigabyte and other considerations.


If one doesn't need a graphics card for anything beyond desktop use or video playback, one should be looking for a card substantially less than the 5770. A 5770 is a gaming card (I have a fanless 5750 on my htpc which I use to game every so often). There are plenty of basic aftermarket cards that support video decoding, audio pass through, etc. that are cheaper, consume less power and are cooler than the mid-tier gaming cards.

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