Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

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SubContractor
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Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by SubContractor » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:51 pm

Hi All

Im considdering the following system for audio production (ableton, VST, MIDI etc), and general internet / PC use. I very occasionally play games (I own one - dragonage).

I was hoping to use just the case fan and the built in PSU fan.

Antec P183 v3
Antec CP850 (was considdering Enermax modu 87+, but I think CP850 might be better for the P183)
ASUS P8P67 Motherboard
Intel SandyBridge 2500K
Thermalright HR-02
Corsair Vengeance CMZ8GX3M2A1600C8 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3
Nexus 120mm fan(s?)
- put into top of case or block off top case like Puget do?
- Use also for CPU or leave as semi passive?
- Use PWM or standard for any or all?
Re use ASUS EAH3650 passive video card
Re use Samsung 250GB for OS and buy a new 2TB Seagate EcoGreen

So looking for any advice in anywhere I might be going wrong here, or if anyone has any suggestions of anything better to go with.

Thanks a lot
Andrew

quest_for_silence
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:35 am

SubContractor wrote: - put into top of case or block off top case like Puget do?

If you won't use any hot graphic card, you would have a quieter system blocking the top vents.
SubContractor wrote: - Use also for CPU or leave as semi passive?

I would advise you to go fanned, but then there are better (mostly cheaper) options than the HR-02.
SubContractor wrote: - Use PWM or standard for any or all?

It makes no difference to me, I don’t mind.

However, a PWM fan need a PWM header (I mean you should have at most two on an ASUS): moreover, IME voltage-controlled headers often may dial more down the fans.
SubContractor wrote:Re use Samsung 250GB for OS and buy a new 2TB Seagate EcoGreen

It seems somehow an odd choice: but if you're comfortable doing so, I mean it should even go.

AldenWitt
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by AldenWitt » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:16 pm

SubContractor wrote:Hi All

Im considdering the following system for audio production (ableton, VST, MIDI etc), and general internet / PC use. I very occasionally play games (I own one - dragonage).

I was hoping to use just the case fan and the built in PSU fan.

Antec P183 v3
Antec CP850 (was considdering Enermax modu 87+, but I think CP850 might be better for the P183)
ASUS P8P67 Motherboard
Intel SandyBridge 2500K
Thermalright HR-02
Corsair Vengeance CMZ8GX3M2A1600C8 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3
Nexus 120mm fan(s?)
- put into top of case or block off top case like Puget do?
- Use also for CPU or leave as semi passive?
- Use PWM or standard for any or all?
Re use ASUS EAH3650 passive video card
Re use Samsung 250GB for OS and buy a new 2TB Seagate EcoGreen

So looking for any advice in anywhere I might be going wrong here, or if anyone has any suggestions of anything better to go with.

Thanks a lot
Andrew
I'm not sure why you're putting an 850W PSU in there. If you're doing it just for headroom, you'd be better off buying one of those quiet, fanned Seasonics at a much lower wattage.

If you're doing real audio editing, you aren't gonna want an under-7200 rpm drive for your data drive. That'll really slow you down. Especially if you start working with sampling, etc.
Also, right now, I believe Ableton (and all other DAWs besides Cubase 64 bit) maxes out at 2gb of ram usage. So you'd be fine with only 4 gb.

If my build is any indication, temp-wise you should be fine going passive on the CPU and having the 1 case and 1 psu fan.
Last edited by AldenWitt on Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:33 pm

AldenWitt wrote:those quiet, fanned Seasonics at a much lower wattage.

Which ones?

ame
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by ame » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:43 pm

X650 or lower would be great. S12 or M12 are also good.
for the setup you are planning ~500W range is ideal. Even less if your not overclocking.

AldenWitt
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by AldenWitt » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:47 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:
AldenWitt wrote:those quiet, fanned Seasonics at a much lower wattage.

Which ones?
With his build, any of these should be more than sufficient.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151097
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151074 (I run way more than he's trying to off this one.)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... _-17151072

See: http://www.silentpcreview.com/Recommended_PSUs

quest_for_silence
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:12 pm

AldenWitt wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
AldenWitt wrote:those quiet, fanned Seasonics at a much lower wattage.

Which ones?
With his build, any of these should be more than sufficient.

With reference to quietness, only the X-400FL would be actually preferable (even if it costs slightly more than it).

Otherwise the CP-850 would make perfect sense, despite its surplus power (the other two Seasonics are significantly louder than it).

AldenWitt
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by AldenWitt » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:24 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:
AldenWitt wrote: With his build, any of these should be more than sufficient.

With reference to quietness, only the X-400FL would be actually preferable (even if it costs slightly more than it).

Otherwise the CP-850 would make perfect sense, despite its surplus power (the other two Seasonics are significantly louder than it).
Really? My bad. 850W just seems ridiculously overpowered for a system like that.

Just for reference, my Seasonic is substantially quieter than my 7200 rpm hard drives. Probably quieter than my undervolted 120mm Nexus fans as well. So if you want to save $60...
Edit: and it's in a 183? I can't imagine you being troubled by this Seasonic sans-stethoscope.
Last edited by AldenWitt on Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

ame
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by ame » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:58 pm

With reference to quietness, only the X-400FL would be actually preferable (even if it costs slightly more than it).

Otherwise the CP-850 would make perfect sense, despite its surplus power (the other two Seasonics are significantly louder than it)
.

I agree X400 may be the absolute best options,

but, calling the S12 significantly louder than the Antec CP850 is significantly exaggerated. If your not sure or you want more headroom you can try this one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151094

It would be near impossible to hear it inside a P183 case let alone notice a difference between the Antec and Seasonic.

Your proposed system will probably never draw more than ~200W, so the fan speed should be at it lowest at all times (under 500 RPM)

quest_for_silence
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:39 am

ame wrote:calling the S12 significantly louder than the Antec CP850 is significantly exaggerated. If your not sure or you want more headroom you can try this one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151094

It would be near impossible to hear it inside a P183 case let alone notice a difference between the Antec and Seasonic.

It's the very same platform, so to me it's pointless opting for it, due to the fact that there's actually no need of any headroom (the proposed system should account at most around 150W DC in a no-OC scenario).

About how much significant is "significant", obviously it may be questionable, but nonetheless there are several figures which say very little in S12-II's favour, first of all the relevant SPCR reviews.

MikeC argues that *current* S12-II platform might be somewhat different from the same S12-II platform reviewed by SPCR: his guesswork are based upon how well perform the Antec True Power New which is Seasonic based. I may add that another clue in that sense might be given by the new XFX Core platform, which should be also Seasonic based.
However we may note that currently the Seasonic S12-II models are not plagued by the reliability issues which seem to affect the Antec TruePower New, and that both Antec True Power New and XFX Core have very different wattage levels from Seasonic S12-II ones: so more probably that not we can say that they are not the same thing (and therefore that S12-II is noticeably louder than a CP-850).

Otherwise, with reference to the enclosure, to me my Antec Signature was significantly louder than my Seasonic X both in my Mini P180 and Raven 2 (I can't say about my old P182 as I swapped it for the Raven: they all very quiet parts, I mean): moreover, when I've bought a couple of years ago my Seasonic M12D, it was far way quieter than my one-year older M12-II (I still have that M12D).

Eventually, if you want something less powerful, I think currently you may look for some of the lowest wattage Nexus or Enermax, among the proven designs, while an intriguing bet might be done upon some beQuiet PSU: but to me anything fanned around 100USD isn't definitely preferable to this "excessive" CP-850, which still remains maybe *the* preferred partner for the P183/P193, even with those such efficient Intel platforms.

AldenWitt
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by AldenWitt » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:59 am

So I guess it comes down to: are those db worth the $$?

SubContractor
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by SubContractor » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:25 pm

Hi All

Im in Australia so pricing and availability are not what it is in US. Seasonic S12II 620W is already $135 (CP850 is 150, SeaSonic S12II 520 was not listed). I know its totally overkill, but for the handfull of dollars it kind of seems like a fair enough option. At some point I'll probably upgrade the video card (maybe when audio production software starts using open CL for processing audio) so the eventual power drain will be a bit higher.

For the 2TB eco green HD, it'll be storage of general files only. Ill probably install my other samsung 7200RPM 250GB as music production drive.

Also, after a bit more research, it seems that the Scythe SlipStream 1200 or 800 might be better fit for the system. What Im not sure about is - are modern motherboards capable of controlling the fan voltage for non PWM fans? Or am I stuck with fixed speed?

Thanks
Andrew

pes
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by pes » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:17 am

quest_for_silence wrote:However we may note that currently the Seasonic S12-II models are not plagued by the reliability issues which seem to affect the Antec TruePower New
I think I'm getting a True Power new psu, and I only checked the 550 on Newegg - but most of the bad reviews seemed pretty funky? Like one losing his after half a year, doing the review only a month after its release - so lying or commenting on the wrong PSU, and some other guy with 3 out of 5 units dying - and Antec hadn't heard of it in their support etc.
Dont you think it is the normal case of things getting blown out of proportion on the internet (otherwise there would be an complete outcry)? Maybe Antec draws more people as a brand and gets more mainstream sales on Newegg. Or is it something special in this case? It would be nice to know! The M12 is aprox. $10-20 more, so I hope so. Think I'll bite the bullet on that one in any case.

m0002a
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by m0002a » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:23 am

pes wrote:I think I'm getting a True Power new psu, and I only checked the 550 on Newegg - but most of the bad reviews seemed pretty funky? Like one losing his after half a year, doing the review only a month after its release - so lying or commenting on the wrong PSU, and some other guy with 3 out of 5 units dying - and Antec hadn't heard of it in their support etc.
Dont you think it is the normal case of things getting blown out of proportion on the internet (otherwise there would be an complete outcry)? Maybe Antec draws more people as a brand and gets more mainstream sales on Newegg. Or is it something special in this case? It would be nice to know! The M12 is aprox. $10-20 more, so I hope so. Think I'll bite the bullet on that one in any case.
It is possible that someone who had 3 out of 5 units dying on them may have contributed to the problem with something they did, and not the fault of the product. It is also possible that the customer was not at fault. However, consider the following;

1. If purchased from NewEgg (and most retailers), the retailer will replace the item if defective within 30 days of purchase (this can vary by retailer). Antec may not know the details of every defective item returned to the retailer.

2. Not sure where you got the info about whether "Antec" knows anything about high failure rates on their PSU's. There are at least 2 possibilities (assuming such failures actually occurred):

(a) the specific support person you talked to (on the phone?) doesn't know anything about that.
(b) it may be the policy of Antec to not disclose product failure rates to the public and support people are instructed to say they don't know anything about it.

pes
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by pes » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:16 am

Newsegg allows the opportunity for the manufacturer to respond to reviews, and in that case they responded. I agree, and it could also be a case of having dispersed the psus over several systems as an small time it-consultant making each claim unique, for example.

But I think it is fair of them - on their end - to think that something is astray when someone anonymously complains about having 3 failures - taking the time to account for it on Newsegg, but not contacting them directly about it. There are many explanations for that too, but you get what I am saying.
One thing that is in the manufacturers favour is that if they challenge someone on false/unsure grounds who is legit there is great potential for it to backlash, the customer in turn reposting and showing their bluff, which could end in a catastrophy.
Any time when a manufacturer does damage control it should be looked at with skepticism, I agree. Strikingly in that case they cited their failure rate as having been documented as lower than all other makes in some study. Not to give air to that for a thousand reasons, but as you mentioned it by coincidence :)
Also to draw a parallel apropos that, ie studies and the methodology and more importantly selection, always being at doubt - and mostly turning out to be lackluster, the same is what I am trying to say about feedback regarding failure rates: imho as a general rule - there isn't enough reviews to know anything for sure, in either direction, good or bad. But as said I'm not making a strong case for it, I'm asking because I'm about to get one and I'm susceptive to doubt as well!
Gonna read up on the rest of the ranges feedback now.

AldenWitt
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by AldenWitt » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:27 am

SubContractor wrote:Hi All

Im in Australia so pricing and availability are not what it is in US. Seasonic S12II 620W is already $135 (CP850 is 150, SeaSonic S12II 520 was not listed). I know its totally overkill, but for the handfull of dollars it kind of seems like a fair enough option. At some point I'll probably upgrade the video card (maybe when audio production software starts using open CL for processing audio) so the eventual power drain will be a bit higher.
Wow; yeah, go with the Antec with those prices.

You guys know about eggxpert.com's Tiered PSU List, right? http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/323050.aspx
Unfortunately, this particular model's not on it, but it's worth checking out when choosing your silent psu.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:01 pm

I think this issue may be pretty OT, so these are just brief side notes.
pes wrote:It would be nice to know!

Well, I haven't (I can't have) any definitive answer, nor guesswork: I may add that I've heard about those allegedly frequent DOA (or somewhat short life) not only on NewEgg but even from some users on the web, the last one just here on SPCR with a TruePower 650W some days ago, IIRC.

Broadly speaking, when I hear of such an issue on a particular product, first of all I check the manufacturer reputation: with this respect I can say that IME Antec (among a few other names, as XFX) have a good support/RMA service. But above all, I check if there are any alternatives to that particular product, and if there is some, very often I go for one of them.

With reference to the True Power New, it is an all around unit pretty quiet up to its mid power level: actually there is little or no alternative among already proven platforms (mostly Nexus, and maybe some Enermax and CoolerMaster under 200W), with reference to quietness over such an extended range of power output, while XFX and BeQuiet! may be some lucky outsiders, if you mind.

pes
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by pes » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:42 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:I think this issue may be pretty OT, so these are just brief side notes. ...


Agreed (sorry!)

Thanks.

thejamppa
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by thejamppa » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:45 pm

I hate to rain in your parade, I was set to build P67+2500K combo myself too, but Intel announced that 6-series chipsets are flawed and might recall all 6-series boards back...

SubContractor
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by SubContractor » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:05 pm

yeah - build now on hold... Anandtech has a nice write up on the issue. Guess I'll wait for the Z68.

twitch
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by twitch » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:11 pm

This flaw has been overblown. I have two core i5-2500k systems with one overclocked to 4.8ghz running. One is a gaming pc, the other an htpc. I mostly use the sata 6 ports so no issue there. Plus the sata 6 off marvel are fine too. Off the sata2, I have a raid 0 running and it seems fine so far. Eventually it'll probably fail but so what I don't keep anything I'll miss on it. Plus I'll get a new mobo in a few months at no charge anyways because of the replacment. Not sure what the big deal is, if you know what you're getting into.

AldenWitt
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by AldenWitt » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:23 pm

twitch wrote:This flaw has been overblown. I have two core i5-2500k systems with one overclocked to 4.8ghz running. One is a gaming pc, the other an htpc. I mostly use the sata 6 ports so no issue there. Plus the sata 6 off marvel are fine too. Off the sata2, I have a raid 0 running and it seems fine so far. Eventually it'll probably fail but so what I don't keep anything I'll miss on it. Plus I'll get a new mobo in a few months at no charge anyways because of the replacment. Not sure what the big deal is, if you know what you're getting into.
I've got a i5-2500k that I'm very pleased with as well. I think the real issue is that people still want these new chips and now they can't get them for a month. Nothing seems "overblown;" it's just a hassle. I haven't seen many people who've decided to lose their faith in intel or anything.

ces
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Re: Please critique - semi passive sandy bridge

Post by ces » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:55 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:I would advise you to go fanned, but then there are better (mostly cheaper) options than the HR-02..
The HR-01 plus is good. The HR-02 seems like the same only larger.

But MikeC implied it wasn't so good but didn't say why.

You have such a nice system, why not get the current CPU Cooler king of the hill:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1138-page5.html

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.c ... 562&page=5

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