Velociraptor - removing the heatsink

David Cole · Post by **David Cole** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:59 pm

Compddd wrote:Thanks! Actually I am in the USA, California, I hope that won't be a problem lol

Post some updates after you install them in the P182 and let me know how they fit in the P182's drive cages!

I have done most of my new build including suspending the velociraptors in the bottom hdd cage of the P182 using the novibes cradles.

I was expecting to be able to screw through the lower cage walls into the NoVibes and get a fastening that way. But the scew threads were different so I drilled out the NoVibes holes a little and used a not and bolt with metal and rubber washers to do the job. Seems to have worked ok.

I didn't opt to use the Scythes because I was nervous about the heat (having just to lost a standard hdd to this).

David

tehcrazybob · Post by **tehcrazybob** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:03 am

Well, I just got my VelociRaptor, and I'm disappointed to say there's some substantial sample variance at work here. I'm with quite a few posters here - unlike MikeC, I found that while removing the IcePak and suspending the drive dramatically reduced the high-pitched noise, the noise is still audible. I'm looking at a Scythe Quiet Drive, since people seem to be having good luck with those.

MikeC: Is it possible your review sample was hand-picked? Is there any chance you could run a short addendum test with a retail sample at some point?

AuraAllan · Post by **AuraAllan** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:53 am

tehcrazybob wrote:Well, I just got my VelociRaptor, and I'm disappointed to say there's some substantial sample variance at work here. I'm with quite a few posters here - unlike MikeC, I found that while removing the IcePak and suspending the drive dramatically reduced the high-pitched noise, the noise is still audible. I'm looking at a Scythe Quiet Drive, since people seem to be having good luck with those.

MikeC: Is it possible your review sample was hand-picked? Is there any chance you could run a short addendum test with a retail sample at some point?

Well, about the whine.
I found that removing the IcePak helped a bit.
Most of the whine disappeared but definitely not all of it.
My VR is currently in a 2.5"SQD with one heatgel pad removed. 2.5"SQD is in a 3,5"SQD which is suspended/laying on foam and the whine is still clearly audible when its quiet here in the evening/night.
Very annoying. Seeks are totally inaudible though with AAM @ 200.

tehcrazybob · Post by **tehcrazybob** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:42 pm

AuraAllan wrote: Well, about the whine.
I found that removing the IcePak helped a bit.
Most of the whine disappeared but definitely not all of it.
My VR is currently in a 2.5"SQD with one heatgel pad removed. 2.5"SQD is in a 3,5"SQD which is suspended/laying on foam and the whine is still clearly audible when its quiet here in the evening/night.
Very annoying. Seeks are totally inaudible though with AAM @ 200.

How much of a difference does a single Scythe enclosure make? Is there a noticeable improvement, or am I likely to feel like I'm wasting money?

Also, what kinds of temperatures are you getting with a double-enclosure like that? I'm concerned about the drive overheating in a single enclosure, but if you're getting decent temperatures in a double then I'll feel a lot better about using one.

AuraAllan · Post by **AuraAllan** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:57 pm

tehcrazybob wrote:How much of a difference does a single Scythe enclosure make? Is there a noticeable improvement, or am I likely to feel like I'm wasting money?

I dont know. Havent used the drive with only a single enclosure.
Im pretty sure seeks would be audible. To me atleast.

tehcrazybob wrote:Also, what kinds of temperatures are you getting with a double-enclosure like that? I'm concerned about the drive overheating in a single enclosure, but if you're getting decent temperatures in a double then I'll feel a lot better about using one.

The temp right now is 35C. (browsing)
Havent seen it hit 40C yet so double enclosure doesn't create any heat problems.

Generally i've seen temp drops when putting drives in SQD's.
I wounldn't worry about drives overheating in these.

tehcrazybob · Post by **tehcrazybob** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:23 pm

I really don't mind hearing intense seeks, as long as the idle noise is somewhat reduced, so that should work really well. I'm also very impressed that an SQD actually lowers the temperatures; I'd assumed the gel pads were an attempt to compensate for the box, rather than being particularly effective.

I guess I'll be ordering an SQD sometime tomorrow!

tehcrazybob · Post by **tehcrazybob** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:00 pm

With my computer room sitting at about 76Â°F, my Velociraptor was running at nearly 40Â°C at idle. I'd rather my drives run a bit cooler than that, so I experimented with putting the IcePak back on and using a line of hot glue to dampen vibrations in the fins. This worked reasonably well, giving me noise levels noticeably lower than the plain IcePak and keeping my drive very comfortable, at around 32Â°C.

Still, the noise was obnoxious, so I ordered a 2.5" Scythe Quiet Drive. Many people here stated that the Velociraptor will fit if one of the gel pads is left out, so I set about installing the drive with that in mind. Because I am so concerned with my drive temperatures, I peeled the thermal pads off the IcePak and stuck them to the circuit board in their original locations, to transfer heat to the SQD. On the other side of the drive, I used some cheap white thermal paste between the drive and the inner shell, and some more between the inner shell and the outer shell. The total assembly is:

Outer case
Thermal grease
Inner silver shell
Thermal grease
Velociraptor
IcePak stock thermal pads
Inner silver shell
SQD thermal pad
Outer Case

In the end, I was unable to get the screws into the enclosure. Since I'm suspending it, this doesn't really matter. My drive is very quiet and runs at ~32Â°C, the same as with the IcePak.

I don't feel like redoing my work, but if I am forced to take the SQD apart again, I will reassemble it a bit differently, leaving out half of the inner silver case, resulting in:

Outer case
SQD thermal pad
Velociraptor
IcePak stock thermal pads
Bottom half of inner silver shell
Thermal grease
Outer Case

Sorry for the long post, but I put a lot of thought into my work and wanted to share. Hopefully it'll help someone else out.

bgiddins · Post by **bgiddins** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:39 am

Well VelociRaptors still have the whine! I didn't find these threads until I started up a new PC build tonight - sounded like there was a mosquito in the room. I disconnected every fan in the system to test, finally disconnecting the HDD.... viola! No more whine.

Are there any silencing options besides the Scythe Quiet Drive 2.5, or just suspending the drive when removed from the ice pack? The Scythe is over $50 in Australia - I was wondering if just using a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter would eliminate the whine. My case doesn't have provision for a fan in the 5.25" bays so I can't use those - I need to use a 3.5" bay.

SUCH an annoying whine!

Post by **MikeC** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:27 am

bgiddins wrote:SUCH an annoying whine!

That's really odd. Even with the previous Raptor (3.5"), high freq whine was not the main problem; it was seek noise. In fact, I'd say that I haven't actually found high freq to be a problem with modern FDB bearing drives for several years. I've heard no whine at all from the 3 VR drive samples we have seen come through here (3 different models from different mfg dates) -- when removed from the IcePack heatsink.

A 2.5" to 3.5" adapter hardmounts the drive to the chassis, and this could result in some whine -- highly dependent on your chassis. It will definiotely increase overall noise compared to suspension as the 167Hz fundamental tone of the drive will be amplified.

You can rig up an elastic suspension in a 3.5" bay to fit the VR. Not hard.

btw, tehcrazybob, I don't believe there's any advantage in having your HDD run 32C compared to 40C. As long as the drive is significantly below the maximum temp rating (say by 10C) then the only real wear factor is how often the HDD undergoes temperature change -- and how extreme that change is. My sense is that a drive that runs constantly at 40C has a better chance of meeting the manufacturer's typical longevity specs than one that is turned on/off regularly -- never mind the temp. (ps -- WD specifies 1.4 million hours MTBF for the VR. It's difficult to really comprehend, as that converts to 160 years.)

tehcrazybob · Post by **tehcrazybob** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:37 am

MikeC wrote:btw, tehcrazybob, I don't believe there's any advantage in having your HDD run 32C compared to 40C. As long as the drive is significantly below the maximum temp rating (say by 10C) then the only real wear factor is how often the HDD undergoes temperature change -- and how extreme that change is. My sense is that a drive that runs constantly at 40C has a better chance of meeting the manufacturer's typical longevity specs than one that is turned on/off regularly -- never mind the temp. (ps -- WD specifies 1.4 million hours MTBF for the VR. It's difficult to really comprehend, as that converts to 160 years.)

I suspect you're probably right, but I'm slightly paranoid as I've had drive failures twice before. I'm sure it was a quality-control issue, not a thermal issue, but I still like to be extra cautious.

However, I needed the SQD either way, as the noise from my drive was quite noticeable simply suspended. The extra cooling from that is just a bonus; if my drive had been quiet once removed from the IcePak, I'd probably have just let it run hot.

bgiddins · Post by **bgiddins** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:47 pm

MikeC wrote:
bgiddins wrote:SUCH an annoying whine!
That's really odd. Even with the previous Raptor (3.5"), high freq whine was not the main problem; it was seek noise.

Maybe whine is the wrong term - it's the same high frequency noise in the first 10 seconds of your recording:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/sou ... -test2.mp3

I was actually surprised at how well the recording captured the identical sound I'm experiencing - so my sound does appear to be a heatsink resonating issue. That's why I though an el-cheapo 2.5"-3.5" adapter might work out. I might investigate the suspension options - the case is an Antec Three Hundred.

edit - a simple solution (for me) might be an anti-vibration adapter that mounts a 2.5" HDD in a 3.5" bay - found these two, the first one doesn't look like it has any height restrictions so should deal with the thickness of the bare VelociRaptor:

AS-25A | AS-25C

I've emailed the distributor to see if the second one will take the 15mm height of the VelociRaptor - will post how I go.

Post by **MikeC** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:21 pm

bgiddins wrote:Maybe whine is the wrong term - it's the same high frequency noise in the first 10 seconds of your recording:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/sou ... -test2.mp3

OK, that's the sound WITH the IcePack, which amplifies everything and adds its own resonance.

To eliminate the whine, don't use either of the adapters you linked -- neither will do anything to reduce noise, they will simply transfer vibrations efficiently into the case. Like I said, the cheapest simplest solution is something like this --

-- in a 3.5" bay.

Also, the rubber plugs with metal threaded rods might work... but these are hard to find. They're used on the Zalman HDD cooler --

-- but they're not effective for 3.5" drives.... they need to be softer than the Zalman ones.

bgiddins · Post by **bgiddins** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:30 pm

Both of those mounts are specifically anti-vibration mounts, rather than metal-to-metal adapters.

Sorry - to clear things up, the only noise issue I have is the resonance from the icepack heatsink - I haven't removed the drive yet from the heatsink, but I had thought that without the heatsink the Velociraptors were amongst the quietest on the market.

I'll investigate the suspension options - the "NoiseMagic NoVibes" also looks like an attractive out-of-the-box solution, but isn't available in Australia.

bgiddins · Post by **bgiddins** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:32 pm

Ok, I've decided to try out the AS-25A 2.5" anti-vibration HDD bracket, to see if it helps resolve the VelociRaptor noises I'm experiencing. I've decided NOT to suspend the drives, but thought that I would test one of these anti-vibration mounts out instead.

The only place in Australia that stocks them is an industrial computing OEM parts supplier, so I've decided to order from the US (I have a US shipping address with relatives who can forward packages). The cheapest I've found them online for is $18.90 at Orbit Micro (http://www.orbitmicro.com/global/25anti ... -2181.html) - anyone know where I might possibly be able to find these cheaper before I pull the pin on a purchase?

Will report back on how effective I find them.

Immersion · Post by **Immersion** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:50 pm

Hello, I bought the VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS. It was incredibly louad in the Icepak, so I really hope it will be drastic change without the icepack. I will try to make it fit into the Scythe Quiet Drive 2.5.

However...I am trying to remove the ICEPACK, it is very frustating, I did damage ONE of the screws, it is only one that is damaged all the others are ok.... However I did manage to get it up just a little bit if I am lucky it might work with an cutting pliers...
Otherwise do you have any advices how I should remove this damaged screw ???

EDIT: have now tried cutting pliers, did not work...

bgiddins · Post by **bgiddins** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:59 pm

You need to use the correct Torx bit! They are not a Phillips head or Allen/Hex.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx

LilWashu · Post by **LilWashu** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:01 am

Immersion wrote:Hello, I bought the VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS. It was incredibly louad in the Icepak, so I really hope it will be drastic change without the icepack. I will try to make it fit into the Scythe Quiet Drive 2.5.

However...I am trying to remove the ICEPACK, it is very frustating, I did damage ONE of the screws, it is only one that is damaged all the others are ok.... However I did manage to get it up just a little bit if I am lucky it might work with an cutting pliers...
Otherwise do you have any advices how I should remove this damaged screw ???

EDIT: have now tried cutting pliers, did not work...

It sounds like you may have already stripped out the screw head? You need to use a Torx size T-8 bit, sometime called a "star" bit. If you did strip it out, I know of two ways that could work.

1) If you have a dremel tool, you can carefully grind a notch into the screw head so that you can use a flat head screw driver to remove it.

2) If you have a set of screw extractor bits and a decent set of drill bits for metal, you can drill out some of the screw head and use the extractor bits to remove it.

You would need to be very careful with either of these as they will be generating little bits of metal that would not play well with electronics.

Good luck, hope some of these ideas can help!

I will say removing the raptor from the Icepack makes such a world of difference!

peerke · Post by **peerke** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:25 pm

For everyone planning on getting a velociraptor note that you can get it without the icepack as standard.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=494

This saves you the trouble of removing it and voiding your warranty.