Hi all,
I am struggling a bit here... has anyone seen ANY mATX socket-P motherboard at all?
At the moment I have a socket-M board (MSI 945GT Speedster-A4R), and I would like to upgrade to Penryn because even the fastest Merom isn't quite fast enough.
But I have more than one PCI device, so I can't use the comparably more common socket-P boards as they are all ITX.
So any ideas please?
Thanks.
MicroATX Socket-P motherboard?
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Do you know that the latest desktop CPU's are quite low power, like the E7300?
They use about 20 - 25 W at most. Total power consumption will of course depend on all components.
If you still want an overpriced mobile mobo, look here. How come you haven't looked at MSI's site??
They use about 20 - 25 W at most. Total power consumption will of course depend on all components.
If you still want an overpriced mobile mobo, look here. How come you haven't looked at MSI's site??
I think your current MSI was a server/workstation card as well when it came.wywywywy wrote:Wow didn't look in the "server" section, thanks for the link!
Very strangely it doesn't support 800MHz FSB processors?
Are you sure desktop processors use 20-25W at most? I thought they were supposed to be 65W nominal?
Real world tests shows that the current E7000 models uses very little power, and the E8000 uses about 30 - 40 W under load.
The 65 W figure doesn't really tell us much in this situation, I think they just kept it from the E6000 series.
I can't find any test numbers right now that shows the CPU consumption only, but I know I've seen them before.
Here's an old thread, the newer CPU's have a different stepping that uses even less power though.
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jessekopelman
- Posts: 1406
- Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:28 pm
- Location: USA
Both AMD and Intel have desktop CPU that run at very low power. This is especially the case with undervolting. Given that you can get desktop socket MB that have more efficient chipsets than those used on the less expensive MoDT boards, the overall power consumption of undervolted desktop is often just as good as MoDT for significantly less money. The only reason to go MoDT anymore is that the mobile CPU are rated for much higher temperatures. This means you can get bye with a much smaller CPU cooler -- which can be critical if you want a very low profile case.
Thanks guys, this puts a new perspective on things.
My HTPC and secondary desktop do use low profile cases with minimal cooling, so they will stay MoDT with 945 for the time being.
But my main desktop has a full size case and water cooling, so going back to "normal processors" seems a logical choice. Just been looking at the G43/G45 desktop boards now (particularly the Asus P5QL-EM), and the prices are really tempting. This would also (probably) mean that I will finally have a board that supports Intel VT properly.
Or, heck, I might even just go i7 directly.
Again, thanks for the advice guys. Much appreciated.
My HTPC and secondary desktop do use low profile cases with minimal cooling, so they will stay MoDT with 945 for the time being.
But my main desktop has a full size case and water cooling, so going back to "normal processors" seems a logical choice. Just been looking at the G43/G45 desktop boards now (particularly the Asus P5QL-EM), and the prices are really tempting. This would also (probably) mean that I will finally have a board that supports Intel VT properly.
Or, heck, I might even just go i7 directly.
Again, thanks for the advice guys. Much appreciated.
Hallo!
I have the same looking problem. I need more power than Aopen i975Xa-Ydg.
The msi mb look nice, but i need know $$.
I think , the mb support the 800 fsb cpu's.
look at the table:
"Intel NB Penryn SocketP 478(for MONTEVINA) FSB800/2*2M-L2/T7700/xxW 2.13Ghz A0 stepping"
Fsb 800, maybe fbs 667 too?
I have the same looking problem. I need more power than Aopen i975Xa-Ydg.
The msi mb look nice, but i need know $$.
I think , the mb support the 800 fsb cpu's.
look at the table:
"Intel NB Penryn SocketP 478(for MONTEVINA) FSB800/2*2M-L2/T7700/xxW 2.13Ghz A0 stepping"
Fsb 800, maybe fbs 667 too?
Nope, they use different sockets. You can't use it.ex.treme wrote:Hallo!
I have the same looking problem. I need more power than Aopen i975Xa-Ydg.
The msi mb look nice, but i need know $$.
I think , the mb support the 800 fsb cpu's.
look at the table:
"Intel NB Penryn SocketP 478(for MONTEVINA) FSB800/2*2M-L2/T7700/xxW 2.13Ghz A0 stepping"
Fsb 800, maybe fbs 667 too?
The fastest you can get for your Aopen is the T7600/T7400/T7200.
Given the prices for those it's probably cheaper to buy a desktop E5200/E7200 and a new motherboard instead.
Mats: Y know, that for my Aopen i can use just T7xxx.
I thought the Msi Gm45 mobo, support 667/800/1066 fsb cpu. It's little strange, when cpu have any sockets,
I gues that fsb 800 and 1066 cpu's are the same and 667 fsb different socket.
Man, i need low power system, not much hungry.
And E5200/7200 uses TDP 65w, i wanna max 45w with Extreme mobile cpu or 35w with Core 2 duo Penryn.
From aside on the desktop mb with hungry consumption.
I thought the Msi Gm45 mobo, support 667/800/1066 fsb cpu. It's little strange, when cpu have any sockets,
I gues that fsb 800 and 1066 cpu's are the same and 667 fsb different socket.
Man, i need low power system, not much hungry.
And E5200/7200 uses TDP 65w, i wanna max 45w with Extreme mobile cpu or 35w with Core 2 duo Penryn.
From aside on the desktop mb with hungry consumption.
Yes, you can use T7600/T7400/T7200, but not T7700/T7500 . . because they have a different socket.ex.treme wrote:Mats: Y know, that for my Aopen i can use just T7xxx.
There are 3 different sockets for mobile C2D, your Aopen have the oldest, and the MSI have the newest.ex.treme wrote:I thought the Msi Gm45 mobo, support 667/800/1066 fsb cpu. It's little strange, when cpu have any sockets,
I gues that fsb 800 and 1066 cpu's are the same and 667 fsb different socket.
A 667 MHz CPU can only fit one of the sockets depending on model, even though all three sockets supports 667 MHz.
The E5000/E7000 series is rated for 65 W, but they use 25 W.ex.treme wrote:Man, i need low power system, not much hungry.
And E5200/7200 uses TDP 65w, i wanna max 45w with Extreme mobile cpu or 35w with Core 2 duo Penryn.
The E8000 series is rated for 65 W, but they use 30 - 40 W.
Even the newest Core 2 Quad uses less than 65 W, and Intel will start selling 65 W C2Q's soon.
See above:
Mats wrote:Real world tests shows that the current E7000 models uses very little power, and the E8000 uses about 30 - 40 W under load.wywywywy wrote: Are you sure desktop processors use 20-25W at most? I thought they were supposed to be 65W nominal?
The 65 W figure doesn't really tell us much in this situation, I think they just kept it from the E6000 series.
I can't find any test numbers right now that shows the CPU consumption only, but I know I've seen them before.
Here's an old thread, the newer CPU's have a different stepping that uses even less power though.
Mats: Thank you for you reply.
Its very nice consumption. I will searching if are confirmed.
I need low consumption pc
Now please help me choice the mb with low consumption chipset for this cpu.
Because what i found was idle about 50-60w with E5200 and this is still much for me.
Edit: i found my favourite .....
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/int ... 39-13.html
Low consumption, low $$$, and all what i need...
Thx for answer and your opinion.
Its very nice consumption. I will searching if are confirmed.
I need low consumption pc
Now please help me choice the mb with low consumption chipset for this cpu.
Because what i found was idle about 50-60w with E5200 and this is still much for me.
Edit: i found my favourite .....
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/int ... 39-13.html
Low consumption, low $$$, and all what i need...
Thx for answer and your opinion.
Yeah, that is an awesome rig. If you want some decent graphics, throw in an AMD/ATI Radeon HD4670 Which only uses 3-4 W at idle. Looking forward to see you future PC in the gallery.ex.treme wrote: Edit: i found my favourite .....
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/int ... 39-13.html
Low consumption, low $$$, and all what i need...
Thx for answer and your opinion.
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populusque
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:16 pm
- Location: France
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but I have that card and I'm trying to find out if the S2 would fit... Are we talking about the exact same card:ex.treme wrote:I have already one Gigabyte Hd 4670 in my second Pc with Accelero S2
? (512MB, reference R476D3)
The guy from the store told me that the capacitors would get in the way, but I'd really love to hear if he's wrong
I have a matx GM965 Socket P board with 4Gb ram and a T8300.
I am using it as a server and with a Perc 6i SAS controller, 4xWD 1Tb drives and an Intel PCIe nic. I am only drawing 60-65w from the wall at idle, 80-85w under load. I have an older Seasonic 330w PSU, don't remember the exact model but its barely 80% efficent at this sort of load.
The cpu has been idling at 18 degrees C and currently, with the house at about 22 degrees the cpu is at 24 degrees. It basically runs at room temperature with a very very modest HS+Fan.
With only a single drive connected and no SAS or additional NIC, draw was about 30-35w idle.
The board I have is a resold custom OEM job, from eBay UK, seller 'SpireDream'. There are none listed at present but they will probably relist. It was called something like 965 Ecoquiet. It was super cheap, £65 inc HS+Fan and two 1Gb sticks of ram.
It is marked ASUS IMISR-VM, has a one PCIe x16, one x1, two PCI, ten USB, Intel 1Gbit Lan (which is faulty on mine), three SATA with NCQ and one IDE. There is also firewire, 7.1 sound and the Intel GFX (VGA only)
It will take all the 800fsb cpu's right up to the T9xxx Penryn's. As I said before I have a T8300 Penryn in it right now, it speedsteps but the FSB never alters speed.
Highly recommended, the lan will probably be faulty on them all, hence being on eBay, but I can live with that when the rest is perfect.
I am using it as a server and with a Perc 6i SAS controller, 4xWD 1Tb drives and an Intel PCIe nic. I am only drawing 60-65w from the wall at idle, 80-85w under load. I have an older Seasonic 330w PSU, don't remember the exact model but its barely 80% efficent at this sort of load.
The cpu has been idling at 18 degrees C and currently, with the house at about 22 degrees the cpu is at 24 degrees. It basically runs at room temperature with a very very modest HS+Fan.
With only a single drive connected and no SAS or additional NIC, draw was about 30-35w idle.
The board I have is a resold custom OEM job, from eBay UK, seller 'SpireDream'. There are none listed at present but they will probably relist. It was called something like 965 Ecoquiet. It was super cheap, £65 inc HS+Fan and two 1Gb sticks of ram.
It is marked ASUS IMISR-VM, has a one PCIe x16, one x1, two PCI, ten USB, Intel 1Gbit Lan (which is faulty on mine), three SATA with NCQ and one IDE. There is also firewire, 7.1 sound and the Intel GFX (VGA only)
It will take all the 800fsb cpu's right up to the T9xxx Penryn's. As I said before I have a T8300 Penryn in it right now, it speedsteps but the FSB never alters speed.
Highly recommended, the lan will probably be faulty on them all, hence being on eBay, but I can live with that when the rest is perfect.
Hi again !
populusque: Yes is it. No any problem with mounting.
See image:
Magsy: looking good. Thx for your opinion.
I found problem with gigabyte EG31MF-S2 (maybe Foxcon G31MG-S is the same) and pciex slot . I have read, that is not supported Pciex 2.0. Just 1.0? This can totally degrade the power vga. And i need full power for my HD4670.
populusque: Yes is it. No any problem with mounting.
See image:
Magsy: looking good. Thx for your opinion.
I found problem with gigabyte EG31MF-S2 (maybe Foxcon G31MG-S is the same) and pciex slot . I have read, that is not supported Pciex 2.0. Just 1.0? This can totally degrade the power vga. And i need full power for my HD4670.
The G31 has PCIE 1.1 just like G33, G35 and P35.
How do you know it's not enough for your card? Here's a review.
How do you know it's not enough for your card? Here's a review.
Mats:
I dont know exactly, i think.
I have this mb http://global.aopen.com/products_spec.aspx
+Core duo T2250@2,6Ghz and with Hd 4670 in 3dmark 2005 only 13 000 points. I wanted to swap for better cpu +mb (E5200 + GB EG31MF-S2) for better graphics performance.
Because normally results are 15000-18000 with 3dmark 2005.
I thought, need better cpu for performance.
I tested with Aopen X975Xa-YDG and have Pcie x16
Pciex 1.1 is x8?
I dont know exactly, i think.
I have this mb http://global.aopen.com/products_spec.aspx
+Core duo T2250@2,6Ghz and with Hd 4670 in 3dmark 2005 only 13 000 points. I wanted to swap for better cpu +mb (E5200 + GB EG31MF-S2) for better graphics performance.
Because normally results are 15000-18000 with 3dmark 2005.
I thought, need better cpu for performance.
I tested with Aopen X975Xa-YDG and have Pcie x16
Pciex 1.1 is x8?
I was talking about PCIE version, not CPU.
You shouldn't care too much about those benchmarks.
Try some game benchmarks instead.
I don't think your upgrade is worth it just for gaming, as long as you're using the 4670.
What if you get 15000 points, and 3 frames per second more in your favorite game, is it worth it? I don't think so.
So yes, your computer will be faster for gaming, but it's a very small gain.
You shouldn't care too much about those benchmarks.
Try some game benchmarks instead.
I don't think your upgrade is worth it just for gaming, as long as you're using the 4670.
What if you get 15000 points, and 3 frames per second more in your favorite game, is it worth it? I don't think so.
So yes, your computer will be faster for gaming, but it's a very small gain.
It sure is, but you also changed the FSB which was very low from the beginning, 533 MHz. Did you notice the same change in FPS count?ex.treme wrote:I cant change multi, i dont have supported chipset at Nhc or Rmclock. (975)
But look: 3dmark 2005 - 1.73Ghz - 9350 points
- 2.6 Ghz - 13 295 points
Well, was very boosted.
Can't you change the multiplier in BIOS?
I'm not sure that I'm right, but at least it's worth checking before upgrading.
ex.treme:
You're right, you would get better performance from upgrading the CPU, but I'm not sure the stock speed of the E5200 is enough.
The thing is that if you compare your T2250 to the E5200 there are few differences:
- Slower clock speed, 2.6 to 2.5 GHz.
- Same FSB, 200 MHz.
- Same L2 cache size, 2 MB.
The E5200 is two generations newer, Yonah>Merom>Penryn, but this review shows that the first step gives you very little extra performance (remember that they have different cache size in the review, and they use unrealistic, low resolutions which makes the games much more CPU dependant.), and this review shows that the second step gives no performance gains at all (compared to the E4700).
It's hard to see that the E5200 would make much difference in your situation, don't you think?
If you want some decent performance from the E5200 you must overclock it, something that can be hard to do with that G31 motherboard.
You're right, you would get better performance from upgrading the CPU, but I'm not sure the stock speed of the E5200 is enough.
The thing is that if you compare your T2250 to the E5200 there are few differences:
- Slower clock speed, 2.6 to 2.5 GHz.
- Same FSB, 200 MHz.
- Same L2 cache size, 2 MB.
The E5200 is two generations newer, Yonah>Merom>Penryn, but this review shows that the first step gives you very little extra performance (remember that they have different cache size in the review, and they use unrealistic, low resolutions which makes the games much more CPU dependant.), and this review shows that the second step gives no performance gains at all (compared to the E4700).
It's hard to see that the E5200 would make much difference in your situation, don't you think?
If you want some decent performance from the E5200 you must overclock it, something that can be hard to do with that G31 motherboard.
Ha... so that was you!!Magsy wrote:The board I have is a resold custom OEM job, from eBay UK, seller 'SpireDream'. There are none listed at present but they will probably relist. It was called something like 965 Ecoquiet. It was super cheap, £65 inc HS+Fan and two 1Gb sticks of ram.
It is marked ASUS IMISR-VM, has a one PCIe x16, one x1, two PCI, ten USB, Intel 1Gbit Lan (which is faulty on mine), three SATA with NCQ and one IDE. There is also firewire, 7.1 sound and the Intel GFX (VGA only)
It will take all the 800fsb cpu's right up to the T9xxx Penryn's. As I said before I have a T8300 Penryn in it right now, it speedsteps but the FSB never alters speed.
Highly recommended, the lan will probably be faulty on them all, hence being on eBay, but I can live with that when the rest is perfect.
I was trying to buy the last one from this seller, but as I was trying to make my final decision, the last one was sold! And since then I've been searching forever.
Wanna sell me yours?
Wrong, I bet it is fine for overclocking a 45nm dual core processor. I had the cheaper Gigabyte G31 running my E7200 at 3.8Ghz very easily. The only issue with the cheaper processors and the Gigabyte motherboards is the lack of 1:1 memory divider, but you can do the BSEL trick to get that.Mats wrote:If you want some decent performance from the E5200 you must overclock it, something that can be hard to do with that G31 motherboard.
My E5200 should be here today. I have a $43 TUL/Foxconn G31 motherboard waiting for it. The best thing is that I just my sold year-old E2140 + Abit IP35-E for more than I paid for them--that will be harder to do with a G31 motherboard.
I've read that changing the BSEL usually doesn't with Gigabyte motherboards, have you noticed this?QuietOC wrote:Wrong, I bet it is fine for overclocking a 45nm dual core processor. I had the cheaper Gigabyte G31 running my E7200 at 3.8Ghz very easily. The only issue with the cheaper processors and the Gigabyte motherboards is the lack of 1:1 memory divider, but you can do the BSEL trick to get that.
Hi again !
I mounted system :
E5200 + GB EG31MF-S2 , 2x 1gb dual DDR2 800, WD320 Gb BEKT 2.5, GB 4670, Fortron 350w.
3d mark 2005 - 13 836 points. Little help me to high fps.
But consumption was droped at idle from 63w to 54w, at load with undervolted cpu i got 108w vs 125 w.
I'm satisfied now. But still working on better
I mounted system :
E5200 + GB EG31MF-S2 , 2x 1gb dual DDR2 800, WD320 Gb BEKT 2.5, GB 4670, Fortron 350w.
3d mark 2005 - 13 836 points. Little help me to high fps.
But consumption was droped at idle from 63w to 54w, at load with undervolted cpu i got 108w vs 125 w.
I'm satisfied now. But still working on better